ANW and ABW double decker influx - where next?

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: ANW and ABW double decker influx - where next?
Some good suggestions so far guys - I definitely agree with the 47 and 53 both needing double deckers. I think the 310 and 352 are good shouts too and definitely worth considering a few years down the line but I can't really comment on the 130 or 263 because I've never used either of those routes

So far suggestion we've got that would be suitable for double deckers are:

7 - Liverpool-Warrington
8/9 - Huyton circulars
47 - Liverpool-Crossens
53 - Liverpool-Crosby
310 - Liverpool-Skelmersdale
352 - St Helens-Wigan

I think it's worth considering all deckers for Speke in a few years' time but the top four routes of the above list of suggestions should be the priority in my view. Green Lane has been desperately under capacity for many years and although it's not as bad as it used to be I don't think we're quite there yet. There's plenty of places for Pulsars/Commanders to go where Cadets are too small but deckers aren't suitable (Runcorn busway) so I can't see that being an issue

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: ANW and ABW double decker influx - where next?
The 352 only needs Deckers for Upholland High School, perfect job for 2nd hand deckers

[Raawwwrrr!]

RE: ANW and ABW double decker influx - where next?
I'd strongly disagree about the 7/8/9 needing deckers at all. The 8/9 service usually has the 'dregs' of the fleet due to vandalism and the fact service stops much earlier than most Liverpool routes. If Green Lane did receive deckers for such a service, I'd much rather appreciate them on the 410, especially during the summer months when New Brighton becomes the place to be.

I will say that the 7 is interesting though, as really it only would justify a double decker on the Huyton - Liverpool section of the route, and with the extension and redesign of Edge Lane retail park, it could become a very popular shopping destination once again, which in theory should increase passenger numbers. However, this does depend on the retail offering, as previously the old retail park was mainly Food, Entertainment furniture, DIY and electrical stores, often where a car or delivery is required, as apposed to New Mersey which has a mixed retail offering a little piece of something for everyone, including clothing retail. Something Edge Lane was lacking.

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: ANW and ABW double decker influx - where next?

(27/03/2017 16:25)Raawwwrrr! Wrote:  I'd strongly disagree about the 7/8/9 needing deckers at all. The 8/9 service usually has the 'dregs' of the fleet due to vandalism and the fact service stops much earlier than most Liverpool routes. If Green Lane did receive deckers for such a service, I'd much rather appreciate them on the 410, especially during the summer months when New Brighton becomes the place to be.

I will say that the 7 is interesting though, as really it only would justify a double decker on the Huyton - Liverpool section of the route, and with the extension and redesign of Edge Lane retail park, it could become a very popular shopping destination once again, which in theory should increase passenger numbers. However, this does depend on the retail offering, as previously the old retail park was mainly Food, Entertainment furniture, DIY and electrical stores, often where a car or delivery is required, as apposed to New Mersey which has a mixed retail offering a little piece of something for everyone, including clothing retail. Something Edge Lane was lacking.

Yeah I get what you mean but I really don't think vandalism is a reason to not buy deckers anymore - I've been on double deckers in London and Birmingham and they were much worse than those operating on the worst routes in Liverpool for vandalism. The 410 is worth considering in the future for sure but I really don't think it's a priority at the moment - the 8/9 I do see where you're coming from but the 7 I'm totally convinced needs upgrading in either capacity or frequency within the next 12-18 months

If you think of how busy the 7 is now between Queen Square and Huyton then think of how much busier it will get if Edge Lane Retail Park takes off - there's absolutely no way in a month of Sundays that single deckers will be suitable on a 30 minute frequency. There's also the chance it could attract more people coming from the Warrington portion of the route as well which will further increase passenger numbers. Personally I think the only way around buying deckers (or bringing older ones in from Speke for example) for the 7 would be to increase the frequency to every 20 minutes - but even then I'm not sure that'd solve the issue. Time will tell though I'm sure

[Valandil]

RE: ANW and ABW double decker influx - where next?

(27/03/2017 16:42)Y474 KNF Wrote:  Yeah I get what you mean but I really don't think vandalism is a reason to not buy deckers anymore - I've been on double deckers in London and Birmingham and they were much worse than those operating on the worst routes in Liverpool for vandalism. The 410 is worth considering in the future for sure but I really don't think it's a priority at the moment - the 8/9 I do see where you're coming from but the 7 I'm totally convinced needs upgrading in either capacity or frequency within the next 12-18 months

If you think of how busy the 7 is now between Queen Square and Huyton then think of how much busier it will get if Edge Lane Retail Park takes off - there's absolutely no way in a month of Sundays that single deckers will be suitable on a 30 minute frequency. There's also the chance it could attract more people coming from the Warrington portion of the route as well which will further increase passenger numbers. Personally I think the only way around buying deckers (or bringing older ones in from Speke for example) for the 7 would be to increase the frequency to every 20 minutes - but even then I'm not sure that'd solve the issue. Time will tell though I'm sure

The 7 is interesting, and I see it as having 3 main purposes.
People travelling into Liverpool on the Huyton - Liverpool stretch: lots of people, can be busy, and deckers could be useful there.
People travelling into Warrington on the Warrington - Huyton stretch: surprisingly many, with buses being full towards Warrington in the morning and busy towards Huyton in the afternoon peak.
People travelling into Liverpool from the Warrington - Huyton stretch: not too many people here, with buses towards Liverpool being quite empty in the mornings on this stretch.

So I would suggest that maybe deckers are appropriate on the 7 between Huyton and Liverpool, but that a Warrington - Liverpool service should use a faster route between Huyton and Liverpool, as well possibly as extending to Liverpool One if possible, encouraging more people to use the bus for this purpose.

[Barney]

RE: ANW and ABW double decker influx - where next?
There are certain Bootle routes (56, 63) that are deemed to be single-deck but in reality invariably have a double-deck allocation for two reasons: they service large secondary schools and only operate half-hourly.

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: ANW and ABW double decker influx - where next?

(27/03/2017 17:00)Valandil Wrote:  The 7 is interesting, and I see it as having 3 main purposes.
People travelling into Liverpool on the Huyton - Liverpool stretch: lots of people, can be busy, and deckers could be useful there.
People travelling into Warrington on the Warrington - Huyton stretch: surprisingly many, with buses being full towards Warrington in the morning and busy towards Huyton in the afternoon peak.
People travelling into Liverpool from the Warrington - Huyton stretch: not too many people here, with buses towards Liverpool being quite empty in the mornings on this stretch.

So I would suggest that maybe deckers are appropriate on the 7 between Huyton and Liverpool, but that a Warrington - Liverpool service should use a faster route between Huyton and Liverpool, as well possibly as extending to Liverpool One if possible, encouraging more people to use the bus for this purpose.

I think bearing those good points in mind operating larger vehicles would also open the door to increasing numbers on the Huyton-Warrington portion. I do completely agree with you that the 7 should be extended through to Liverpool ONE but I don't agree in putting deckers on one half of the route and single decks on the other half - as this would increase the number of vehicles needed to operate both portions. It would be far better to just completely upgrade it to double deck in my opinion

If it was extended through to Liverpool ONE then an additional vehicle will be required to keep the current frequency with the additional running time that would be added to the route. I really think the 7 has a lot of potential for growth and I for one hope that this is realised because it connects two of the North West's largest population centres yet bizarrely it doesn't terminate at the largest shopping centre in Liverpool which attracts customers from all over the North West

[cx04axy]

RE: ANW and ABW double decker influx - where next?
Bangor depot have lost one decker 4189 is on the withdrawn section in Bangor. Not sure why its there.

All i know it could do with a newer fleet of deckers in bangor

[Valandil]

RE: ANW and ABW double decker influx - where next?

(27/03/2017 17:49)Y474 KNF Wrote:  I think bearing those good points in mind operating larger vehicles would also open the door to increasing numbers on the Huyton-Warrington portion. I do completely agree with you that the 7 should be extended through to Liverpool ONE but I don't agree in putting deckers on one half of the route and single decks on the other half - as this would increase the number of vehicles needed to operate both portions. It would be far better to just completely upgrade it to double deck in my opinion

If it was extended through to Liverpool ONE then an additional vehicle will be required to keep the current frequency with the additional running time that would be added to the route. I really think the 7 has a lot of potential for growth and I for one hope that this is realised because it connects two of the North West's largest population centres yet bizarrely it doesn't terminate at the largest shopping centre in Liverpool which attracts customers from all over the North West

Yeah, I suppose that what I am suggesting is 2 completely separate services:
7 Huyton - Liverpool Queen Square, along the present route (could be kept single deck if the frequency is increased)
6 Warrington - Huyton - Liverpool One, using a much faster route between Huyton and Liverpool One.
That way I see all 3 main purposes people use the 7 being satisfied. As it stands, journey times are just too long for people to travel Warrington - Liverpool frequently, except for a few hardened individuals who don't mind spending 3 hours on a bus in a day!

[Y727 KNF]

RE: ANW and ABW double decker influx - where next?

(27/03/2017 18:06)cx04axy Wrote:  Bangor depot have lost one decker 4189 is on the withdrawn section in Bangor. Not sure why its there.

All i know it could do with a newer fleet of deckers in bangor

Might be withdrawn due to the squeaky fanbelt? Or just waiting to be fixed