Greater Manchester Franchising

[Mayneway]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(01/04/2021 04:26)Mrboo Wrote:  Just been reading https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/trav...d=msedgntp

Bus use outside London is proving highly variable, reaching 42 per cent on Monday – the lowest weekday figure for a fortnight.

So if we are at about 42% use when shops and offices are closed I feel numbers will return fast.

So all this talk of pre levels may return maybe even higher as some car users have given up there cars or had company cars that are no longer in there household.

If we are being warned that the high street will never see footfall like pre covid, used and new car sales have took a massive hike and there’s currently a 6-9 month wait to sit a driving test I find it hard to believe patronage on buses will ever get to pre covid levels for a start how can it when we are being warned social distancing will be around for the forseeable.

[Mrboo]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(01/04/2021 10:23)Mayneway Wrote:  If we are being warned that the high street will never see footfall like pre covid, used and new car sales have took a massive hike and there’s currently a 6-9 month wait to sit a driving test I find it hard to believe patronage on buses will ever get to pre covid levels for a start how can it when we are being warned social distancing will be around for the forseeable.

Well am on the London North Western from Crewe to London and it really busy guard was checking tickets I was shocked and jokes I not seen anyone for 8 weeks and was told things are picking up as things are getting back to normal.

Once the shops return there going to be a big bang for sure. And places like Manchester is losing the cheap parking

Will see if I have to run extra buses this weekend as I feel 1 single decker every 30 mins will over load

[Barney]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(01/04/2021 15:43)Mrboo Wrote:  Well am on the London North Western from Crewe to London and it really busy guard was checking tickets I was shocked and jokes I not seen anyone for 8 weeks and was told things are picking up as things are getting back to normal.

Once the shops return there going to be a big bang for sure. And places like Manchester is losing the cheap parking

Will see if I have to run extra buses this weekend as I feel 1 single decker every 30 mins will over load

The current situation is atypical. Assuming the pandemic is resolved in the next year or so, there is no reason to believe that passenger numbers will not return to 2019 loadings. We shall see.

[Mikeonthebuses]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising
I have been watching how London buses are being operated and managed, there somethings TFGM could use and learn from here in Manchester.

Bus Parks - Areas where multiple vehicles park to wait their time or next duty or driver break, In Greater Manchester there is a lack of suitable bus parks especially at major terminuses like the city centre. meaning vehicles having to find not suitable places to park or hogging a valuable stand. Would TFGM look at constructing some bus parks for vehicles out of service as London has?

Would we see more cross-city routes in the near future?

Would see an introduction in a similar version of IBus like London, to provide next stop announcements, stand closures and route divisions.

TFGM could pioneer new ideas which are not currently used in London.

What have you seen from London Bus Operation that you would like to happen with our Buses in Manchester

[knutstransport]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(01/04/2021 10:23)Mayneway Wrote:  and there’s currently a 6-9 month wait to sit a driving test

That might not be the result of more people learning to drive. Driving lessons and tests have been suspended during lockdowns and test centres would likely have been affected by examiners self-isolating and contracting COVID. If anything a long wait for a driving test will mean learner drivers may have to rely on public transport for much longer than usual. Note that many people pass driving tests on the second attempt.

[Barney]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(05/04/2021 11:39)Mikeonthebuses Wrote:  Bus Parks: areas where multiple vehicles park to wait their time or next duty or driver break. In Greater Manchester there is a lack of suitable bus parks especially at major terminuses like the city centre meaning vehicles having to find not suitable places to park or hogging a valuable stand. Would TFGM look at constructing some bus parks for vehicles out of service as London has?

Slightly off topic but Liverpool has resolved the problem of on-street parking and the issue of bus stands by banning buses in large areas of the city centre and making passengers walk a considerable distance to the main shopping areas and tourist attractions, including the Pier Head. A bus park that can accommodate about a dozen buses at a time has been constructed on the edge of the city centre.

Motorists, of course, can still drive and park anywhere they choose.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(05/04/2021 11:39)Mikeonthebuses Wrote:  Bus Parks - Areas where multiple vehicles park to wait their time or next duty or driver break, In Greater Manchester there is a lack of suitable bus parks especially at major terminuses like the city centre. meaning vehicles having to find not suitable places to park or hogging a valuable stand. Would TFGM look at constructing some bus parks for vehicles out of service as London has?

Generally speaking, there isn't many places where a bus park would be useful in Greater Manchester because most buses use bus stations which have designated parking. Some routes into the city could benefit from a bus park but where exactly do you put a bus park in the city? Most land is built on and you would end up forcing lots of additional traffic into already congested areas (for example Stagecoach Middleton routes would have to drop off near the Morrisons daily, run around to wherever the bus park is and then have to drive back which would put around a 25% increase in the number of buses going along Oldham Street (would be 50% if every bus did it but I am taking into account smart scheduling giving little layover and also late buses).
It's worth remembering that much of London doesn't have bus stations, it's just an array of stands at the side of the road and so for a bus to terminate and have layover, there has to be a bus park there else buses would just block up the main roads. Manchester has bus stations which are built with the layover in mind.

(05/04/2021 11:39)Mikeonthebuses Wrote:  Would we see more cross-city routes in the near future?

This I would like to see. I can't see why it couldn't be done now, I think it's just bus operators are a bit scared of it being a huge punctuality issue. Many routes it wouldn't work for as they are too long but a cross city route can be roughly 1h15 long. The issue is that most interworking opportunities would 1, cause a huge headache for punctuality, 2, would lead to a huge mess up with the PVR in depots (Most routes run close to one of the depots and so a North - South link would mean either depot sharing routes or a lot of dead millage and a lot of faffing PVR making depots no better or worse off).

(05/04/2021 11:39)Mikeonthebuses Wrote:  Would see an introduction in a similar version of IBus like London, to provide next stop announcements, stand closures and route divisions.

Great for some occasional travellers, extremely annoying for regulars and also those with certain sensory issues such as noise. It's a large cost and can put some people off the buses. If not ran properly as well, it ends up with stupid people doing stupid things such as in London 'hold on this bus is about to move' every 30 seconds. Do you want to annoy your existing passengers with the hope of encouraging one or two new ones?

(05/04/2021 11:39)Mikeonthebuses Wrote:  TFGM could pioneer new ideas which are not currently used in London.

Not a hope in hell. Not unless there is some sort of corruption with the mayor or TFGM getting a nice backhander from it. Incase you hadn't noticed, TFGM is a dictatorship, not ran for public good but for the good of the management who try to make a name for themselves. Nothing good comes out of TFGM.

(05/04/2021 11:39)Mikeonthebuses Wrote:  What have you seen from London Bus Operation that you would like to happen with our Buses in Manchester

1 thing and 1 thing only. Toilets at terminus. Would be a life saver for many drivers who have very limited toilet opportunities, especially for cross town routes which only stop momentarily at a bus station.

(05/04/2021 20:24)Barney Wrote:  Slightly off topic but Liverpool has resolved the problem of on-street parking and the issue of bus stands by banning buses in large areas of the city centre and making passengers walk a considerable distance to the main shopping areas and tourist attractions, including the Pier Head. A bus park that can accommodate about a dozen buses at a time has been constructed on the edge of the city centre.

Motorists, of course, can still drive and park anywhere they choose.

You mean the fantastic bus park which doesn't actually have enough space for buses and therefore buses are being instructed to park in many cases, back in the original spaces on Dale Street and even on Exchange Street. The best part is, the buses now have more dead mileage than they had before and it hasn't reduced buses through the city by that much, difference is now most of them are doing it not in service rather than in service.

[Barney]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(06/04/2021 04:02)iMarkeh Wrote:  You mean the fantastic bus park which doesn't actually have enough space for buses and therefore buses are being instructed to park in many cases, back in the original spaces on Dale Street and even on Exchange Street. The best part is, the buses now have more dead mileage than they had before and it hasn't reduced buses through the city by that much, difference is now most of them are doing it not in service rather than in service.

Exactly. I am somewhat biased but I would like to think that Andy Burnham and his staff will have a far more measured and pragmatic approach as to where buses can operate (and park) within Manchester city centre than those who are currently responsible for connectivity in Liverpool who seem to have a very anti-bus mindset.

[EDB325]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising
Once the Government takeover of Liverpool City Council is in full swing, I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see the current situation turned on its head, with buses given a much higher priority over private motorists.

[Barney]

RE: Greater Manchester Franchising

(06/04/2021 13:12)EDB325 Wrote:  Once the Government takeover of Liverpool City Council is in full swing, I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see the current situation turned on its head, with buses given a much higher priority over private motorists.

I agree that Liverpool City Council has favoured the private motorist over bus operation in recent years but I am fairly sure that the purpose of the Government's appointment of commissioners is to oversee day-to-day running of the city and ensure that it is conducted within the law and not to make policy decisions or overturn those already made.