National Express Coach Station in Liverpool to close

[MTL0201]

RE: National Express Coach Station in Liverpool to close

(16/02/2016 21:04)Dentonian Wrote:  Manchester to/from Norton Street is 55 minutes off-peak, and that's realistic, especially westbound. Its also only slightly slower (but presumably much cheaper) than the train. You are now talking 90 minutes, which is not only highly undesirable to passengers, but would also mean extra resources and a complete timetable change for NX.

Although my Manchester-Sheffield example is unusual in that coaches still pass two of the abandoned stops, and within a few hundred metres of the other two, so the cost in serving any one of them would be negligible on a twice a day route, the lack of Coach stops away from the city centre is normal. Surely very few suburbs have direct coach links nowadays, with the 060 serving every lampost between Ordsall and Chadderton being the sole exception north of Penkridge (I never did understand that one!)

The talk about coach passengersc wandering the city streets late at night does prompt one question though; Doesn't megabus serve Liverpool?

Most of the Liverpool-Manchester coaches go to Leeds, & peak hour journeys can be 2 hours 30 plus, the whole timetable would have to be recast with extra coaches/drivers added if it went to LSP.

Not to mention the overnight 421 Blackpool-London wouldn't be able to serve LSP as after Liverpool that calls at Birkenhead & Chester after Liverpool & goes the A59 into Liverpool from Preston, also other day coaches that go to Birkenhead & Chester would be affected with extra journey times added, moving NEX to LSP is idiotic.

[Raawwwrrr!]

RE: National Express Coach Station in Liverpool to close

(16/02/2016 21:04)Dentonian Wrote:  Manchester to/from Norton Street is 55 minutes off-peak, and that's realistic, especially westbound. Its also only slightly slower (but presumably much cheaper) than the train.

If you book a Northern Electrics train in advance the fare is £3 up until 6pm the day prior.
National Express fares start at around £3 and gradually build up to the standard fare as demand increased, plus a booking fee and printing charges.

If you have a railcard then the train becomes £2 which is actually cheaper than a standard Liverpool Bus Fare.
When I had a coachcard the cheapest fare I ever had was a £2.65 single, the most expensive being £8.10 on Boxing Day (due to no train service)

[JamesR19]

RE: National Express Coach Station in Liverpool to close

(17/02/2016 07:20)M60lad Wrote:  At the old Coach Station you were able to get tickets virtually upuntil the coach was due to depart from the ticket machines in the Coach Station, now with the ticket machines being situated inside the Merseytravel shop at Liverpool ONE where can you get tickets from once the Travelshop has closed, surely this one of the negatives over the old National Express Coach Station where you could get tickets virtually anytime

You have made a VERY good point there mate, I mean the Travel Centre is open from 8.30am-6.00pm on Monday - Saturday and closed on Sundays so with the National Express ticket office being in there where are passengers supposed to get their tickets from after those hours. Your post has proved how much of a farce the relocation to Liverpool One is.

(17/02/2016 12:15)MTL0201 Wrote:  Most of the Liverpool-Manchester coaches go to Leeds, & peak hour journeys can be 2 hours 30 plus, the whole timetable would have to be recast with extra coaches/drivers added if it went to LSP.

Not to mention the overnight 421 Blackpool-London wouldn't be able to serve LSP as after Liverpool that calls at Birkenhead & Chester after Liverpool & goes the A59 into Liverpool from Preston, also other day coaches that go to Birkenhead & Chester would be affected with extra journey times added, moving NEX to LSP is idiotic.

Your 421 journey example could EASILY be rerouted to LSP from the A59 via M57 > Knowsley Exressway > A561 to LSP then just travel back along the A561 to Liverpool One then travel onto Birkenhead, Chester etc.

Also like I previously mentioned day coaches could start and finish at LSP with a stop at Liverpool One with only 20 minutes added journey time which is nothing to people who wish to travel to LSP rather than Liverpool One. Your problem and issues with LSP are crazy. I mean it is a lot nicer, SAFER and has a lot more connecting travel services than Liverpool One will ever have.

[Raawwwrrr!]

RE: National Express Coach Station in Liverpool to close

(17/02/2016 14:10)JamesR19 Wrote:  You have made a VERY good point there mate, I mean the Travel Centre is open from 8.30am-6.00pm on Monday - Saturday and closed on Sundays so with the National Express ticket office being in there where are passengers supposed to get their tickets from after those hours. Your post has proved how much of a farce the relocation to Liverpool One is.

Passengers can purchase National Express tickets from any Bus Station including Queen Square, which is open slightly longer mid-week.

A machine could/and should (if not already) be placed between stands 1 to 3 similar to how some stands have vending machines where passengers can buy tickets from (But It will probably be argued that Megabus could do the same, similar to Manchester Shudehill).

The alternate is Mobile ticketing and Online booking similar to Megabus, which a large number of passengers use anyway as it's cheaper to buy advance tickets.

[wilko]

RE: National Express Coach Station in Liverpool to close
The move to Liverpool One is obviously a poor decision, but to use South Parkway would be just as bad if not worse due to the extra travel time that would be required. Since the move to Liverpool One most of timetables are tight enough already without adding extra stops on to the schedule. For example i was there a week or so back on a Saturday afternoon and it was total chaos there as there was about 5 coaches there at the same time due to a couple of late running services. It wasn't helped by the fact that a tri-axle coach from Go Northern couldn't get around the roundabout at the top of the bus station due to a stagecoach staff mini-bus parked in the way. However this could have been easily avoided if they could use one of the stands on the other side of bus station, as at the moment most services come on to the station via Strand Street they then have to go all the way around the bus station. With most NX services terminating at Liverpool One they then have to go all the way around the station again to get to the layover area. This all adds extra time to the service and if a driver is in need of a mandatory rest then there could easily be a knock-on effect to the departure time of a following service which does seem to be happening quite frequently. Clearly at Norton Street this wasn't a problem as the coaches could either stay on the bay or just reverse to the back of the station.

Would it be possible or feasible for NX to use one stand on either side of the station, for example use bays 1 and 10 for example instead of 1 and 2?

[wirralbus]

RE: National Express Coach Station in Liverpool to close
The idea was not to replace Liverpool One with Liverpool South parkway but to utilise both .

There is no way that Stagecaoch and arriva would allow them to move to the other side of the Bus Station as this is the direction that most of there bus services will be leaving the bus station and im sure they would cause ructions if told to move across to where NX use at the moment .

[JamesR19]

RE: National Express Coach Station in Liverpool to close

(17/02/2016 14:34)Raawwwrrr! Wrote:  Passengers can purchase National Express tickets from any Bus Station including Queen Square, which is open slightly longer mid-week.

A machine could/and should (if not already) be placed between stands 1 to 3 similar to how some stands have vending machines where passengers can buy tickets from (But It will probably be argued that Megabus could do the same, similar to Manchester Shudehill).

The alternate is Mobile ticketing and Online booking similar to Megabus, which a large number of passengers use anyway as it's cheaper to buy advance tickets.

Expecting passengers to buy tickets at Queen Square (which has the same opening times as Liverpool One apart from 10am-5pm on a Sunday) is defeating the object. I mean by your post if it is a Sunday and I got the train to Lime Street I have to walk to Queen Square and then to Liverpool One which I certainly would NOT be happy about doing that. Also not everyone has the ability to use Mobile tickets or Online tickets so what would they do? I doubt elderly passengers have a smartphone or able to use ticket machines.

Basically what I am saying that right now, 7.15pm, if I needed to travel with National Express in an emergency there is NO way of me purchasing tickets at Liverpool One. However if National Express was based in Liverpool South Parkway they could have an agent in their ticket office which is open from Monday to Saturday 05:50 - 00:15 and Sunday 07:50 - 00:15 so there is plenty of time for passengers to purchase tickets even in an emergency.

[E400]

RE: National Express Coach Station in Liverpool to close
To be fair, the whole ticket availability issue could be solved if NX was able to have the travel centre open during their hours of operation (were they 24 hours at Norton St?). Merseytravel could also strike some sort of deal with NX so that NX sell and renew Solos and Trios so there is convenience for local shift workers as well. There needs to be a fully symbiotic relationship between Merseytravel, NX and the local operators. I'm sure things will evolve with time; it seems this was all done in haste so problems will be dealt with as they arise.

[JamesR19]

RE: National Express Coach Station in Liverpool to close

(17/02/2016 19:53)Dentonian Wrote:  I'm sorry, but the more I read about this, the dafter it seems.

1. "Only" 20 minutes. 20 minutes is a major inconvenience to passenger and cost to NX

2. If you serve a rail "hub" in South Liverpool, is there not an argument to serve one in North Liverpool. Should all coaches serving Manchester be diverted via Salford Crescent or East Didsbury Metrolink stop?

3. Do people actually "integrate" between rail and coach? Surely, if you are using a (frequent) rail service to get from your home, you would normally continue from Lime Street by Rail, rather than infrequent and slower coach, as any fare saving will be minimised by using rail as one part of the journey anyway. I'm not an expert on NX ops from Liverpool, but surely the (current) 060 is the most frequent and most competitive with rail in terms of journey times. However, if accessing LSP haven't you already got a frequent train to Manchester anyway?

Finally, it seems ironic that you think NX should start diverting massively to serve the suburbs, at a time when both private bus operators and politicians (including would be Elected Mayors) are working towards bus services ONLY serving city centres.

In reply to your points:

1 & 2: As Wirralbus has said I am not saying that National Express should stop services to/from Liverpool One all I am saying is LSP should be added as a much safer and less intimidating stop for users that do not want to use Liverpool One given the city centre based location at night and weekends.

3: Ok I give you that some locations currently served by train at LSP would also be served by National Express but others aren't and I think you would find that customers would much rather wait for their coach in an enclosed station with a café, security and staff present for 19 hours of the day. I never travel to Manchester but I would rather have 20-30 minutes added onto my journey than ever use Liverpool One.

My main issue with Liverpool One is that as other people have said if I travel after 6pm I will be on my own with no staff/security to rely on if drunken idiots and thieves decided to target fellow National Express passengers waiting there. I will admit that being gay I am scared to use Liverpool One for that reason as my old coach services left Liverpool at 7am and arriving back at 11pm.

Norton Street closing for me is a massive loss and I hope that passenger numbers dwindle so much that National Express regret the decision to move to Liverpool One.

[wilko]

RE: National Express Coach Station in Liverpool to close

(17/02/2016 15:32)wirralbus Wrote:  The idea was not to replace Liverpool One with Liverpool South parkway but to utilise both .

There is no way that Stagecaoch and arriva would allow them to move to the other side of the Bus Station as this is the direction that most of there bus services will be leaving the bus station and im sure they would cause ructions if told to move across to where NX use at the moment .

1. I realise that, but adding extra stops to the route will just add extra time to the routes and therefore an extra cost. Extra time and extra mileage will also cause more possible delays to the services.

2. Is that really true as Stand/Bay 6 is seldom used by any service bus, so much so that this is the stand now used by Megabus, albeit they only have a couple of departures per day? There is also no reason as to why stagecoach/arriva couldn'y use the other side of the bus station to load and then turn around before going straight up Hanover Street as most if not all buses already do that before loading.