None DDA Buses still in Service?

[djb]

RE: None DDA Buses still in Service?

(06/01/2016 13:46)Mayneway Wrote:  Partly yes but as they have coach seating I did think they have probably registered them as coaches.

They use 3 ALX Darts on Glossop schools. All 3 are R reg and have no working blinds on the side or rear and very often don't even use the front ones.

I'm fairly sure Stagecoach sold them as they wernt DDA complient so I carnt see that smiths have paid to convert them.

It brings up the question : in theory any operator could continue to operate a non-dda vehicle (especially one that is low floor so isn't instantly obvious). Even if they get caught operating it, they can say it was just being used for one of the allowed 14 days..... As long as there was no evidence to show it operating more often.

Smiths could have registered the darts as coaches too? They ran the 200 with varios till Easter this year.

[Mayneway]

RE: None DDA Buses still in Service?

(06/01/2016 15:03)djb Wrote:  It brings up the question : in theory any operator could continue to operate a non-dda vehicle (especially one that is low floor so isn't instantly obvious). Even if they get caught operating it, they can say it was just being used for one of the allowed 14 days..... As long as there was no evidence to show it operating more often.

Smiths could have registered the darts as coaches too? They ran the 200 with varios till Easter this year.

Absolutely and it raises another question. Is anyone with aurthority actually going round checking to make sure every single decker bus is DDA complient??

Can full size single deckers be registered as coaches?? If that's the case wording the majority of operators who have gone out and acquired DDA complient vehicles to replace non DDA vehicles, or spent money converting them simply have registered them as coaches to get another 4 years life out of them?

[Lynx]

RE: None DDA Buses still in Service?
Halton Darts 20-27 still have roller blinds with the vast majority having the side and rear destinations broken or disconnected. It's quite poor really as the front blinds are hardly in the best condition as it is.

[Quackdave]

RE: None DDA Buses still in Service?
When we say "registered as coaches", registered with whom? I thought that as far as DVLA was concerned, they're all simply PCVs, and the distinction is only based on what type of work they're used for?

[Mayneway]

RE: None DDA Buses still in Service?

(06/01/2016 19:15)Quackdave Wrote:  When we say "registered as coaches", registered with whom? I thought that as far as DVLA was concerned, they're all simply PCVs, and the distinction is only based on what type of work they're used for?

I presume on the vehicle paperwork you simply re-register the vehicle as a coach instead of a PSV. I seem to remember originally reading a thread on a site discussing Merc Vario's, and that by simply re-registering them with DVLA as coaches rather than service buses they could continue to be used until 2020?? But im pretty certain this dosen't apply to full size single deckers.

[mbonwick]

RE: None DDA Buses still in Service?
We need to be careful with terminology here.
A "coach" is a term only defined within the PSVAR Act, as "a vehicle on which standees are not permitted". It does not appear in the Public Service Vehicles (Conditions of Fitness, Equipment, Use and Certification) Regulations.
What I'm trying to say here is that "coach" is an extra category only brought in for DDA - no vehicles are registered as type: coach; it's either a PSV or HGV.

Now, to get a PSV to be a coach for the purpose of PSVAR it's really simple - you send form VTP5 "Notification of Alterations to a PSV" off to the DVSA with a new standing capacity of 0. They then send an examiner to check the vehicle over and give it a new MOT. (Or if you have a Merc 709D, you take out a pair of seats, then send VTP5 off with the new seated capacity of 21).

The only possible stumbling block is that DVSA have said they won't allow the changing of capacity just to subvert the DDA/PSVAR regulations - so presumably the operator will need a cover story. (e.g. use on school contracts where the contract specifies "no standee" vehicles; conversion to 3+2 seating etc).

Also worth saying that for the purposes of DDA, any vehicle can be a coach - regardless of whether it'd normally be called a mini or midibus, or a single decker or a double decker - if you can't stand, it's a coach.

[Mayneway]

RE: None DDA Buses still in Service?

(06/01/2016 21:29)mbonwick Wrote:  We need to be careful with terminology here.
A "coach" is a term only defined within the PSVAR Act, as "a vehicle on which standees are not permitted". It does not appear in the Public Service Vehicles (Conditions of Fitness, Equipment, Use and Certification) Regulations.
What I'm trying to say here is that "coach" is an extra category only brought in for DDA - no vehicles are registered as type: coach; it's either a PSV or HGV.

Now, to get a PSV to be a coach for the purpose of PSVAR it's really simple - you send form VTP5 "Notification of Alterations to a PSV" off to the DVSA with a new standing capacity of 0. They then send an examiner to check the vehicle over and give it a new MOT. (Or if you have a Merc 709D, you take out a pair of seats, then send VTP5 off with the new seated capacity of 21).

The only possible stumbling block is that DVSA have said they won't allow the changing of capacity just to subvert the DDA/PSVAR regulations - so presumably the operator will need a cover story. (e.g. use on school contracts where the contract specifies "no standee" vehicles; conversion to 3+2 seating etc).

Also worth saying that for the purposes of DDA, any vehicle can be a coach - regardless of whether it'd normally be called a mini or midibus, or a single decker or a double decker - if you can't stand, it's a coach.

Thanks for the clarification there. It had been explained to me some time ago but I've forgot more than I've remembered.

I wonder how many smaller operators have gone down this road then. I'm sure quite a few will have done it to buy themselves a few extra years.

With school services though it's a risky area as many do have standee's but again I know it's dangerous in the event of an accident but is anyone official actually out checking.

[John I]

RE: None DDA Buses still in Service?
I was in Accrington today and saw three Mercedes mini-buses operated by M & M Coaches in the town's bus station. One (N.375 PNY) was in service on route 46 to Blackburn.
Incidentally Pilkington's had four Olympians working town services.

[MPTE1955]

RE: None DDA Buses still in Service?
Deckers have another year so they are fine to be in normal service

[Quackdave]

RE: None DDA Buses still in Service?

(06/01/2016 21:29)mbonwick Wrote:  A "coach" is a term only defined within the PSVAR Act, as "a vehicle on which standees are not permitted".

Thanks for that explanation, very helpful.

Elsewhere it's been said that the Y-- TDA batch of Darts are non-compliant, of which two (Y38 TDA and Y42 TDA) were still in service during December. However, having looked at the PSVAR online, it says that vehicles first used after 31st December 2000 should have been compliant from the outset, unless they were manufactured before October 2000; DVLA records the year of manufacture for these Darts as 2001. So surely these must be compliant?