Arriva put Prices up again

[CX06 EBK (Administrator)]

RE: Arriva put Prices up again
You can use your Arriva and Stagecoach tickets on each others services in Liverpool on the 10/14/53/82/86 without issue. The only time you can't use them is on the sections not served by that operator, such as the Garston - Speke section on the 82 or the Garston - Liverpool Airport section on the 86A, as Arriva only operate on that section. As for the 14/79C I believe this is due to change soon, I'm not sure weather this will include the normal 79 but I wouldn't see why not. As most people who have Stagecoach tickets won't live beyond Garston as there is no services operated there by Stagecoach, those restrictions previously mentioned wouldn't make much of a difference anyway.

[FC Pictures]

RE: Arriva put Prices up again

(26/02/2015 00:45)Enviro400 Wrote:  Any route that is shared by different operators eg the 86, 10 etc, should allow the use of either operators tickets, regardless of ticket type or whether the route is QBP. I don't understand why 1/2/471/472 on Wirral accept all tickets on both Arriva and Stagecoach yet the equivalent services in Liverpool do not. I also think the likes of the 14 and 79 should have to accept Halton and Arriva tickets for the shared route between the city and just past Belle Vale. It isn't the customers fault that, especially on the likes of the 86, a Stagecoach bus arrives when an Arriva 86A is timetabled, and those with Arriva tickets any more than weekly have to then wait for an Arriva bus, particularly at night. If bus companies want to share routes, then they should share the customers that they serve. Arriva and Stagecoach have got it right in Wirral, hopefully Liverpool can be sorted out prompt. Does anybody know of a reason why this is the case with tickets in Liverpool?

In the Wirral the QBP`s started when First had those routes, and both companies sold monthly tickets,Stagecoach carried over the same contract, but in Liverpool Stagecoach have always refused Arriva Monthly tickets on QBP Routes, as you say it`s unfair on passengers and can`t really be called a partnership if one partner refuses the others tickets.In a Similar veign on Merseytravel evening tenders the day and weekly tickets of the daytime regular operator of the route should be valid on the covering evening tender of the service,such as on the 62 where Stagecoach run evening journeys on which you can`t travel with Arriva tickets you may have bought just to use this service as it`s your only bus route.

[MPTE1955]

RE: Arriva put Prices up again
Also 14 on the Kirkby section as arriva don't go there and after the 10B enters bluebell lane on its way to Huyton as stagecoach do not go that way into huyton with its 217/227.

[wirralbus]

RE: Arriva put Prices up again
Merseytravel are funding the service , they will not be receiving any revenue from that person travelling on that ticket with regards to your situation on the 62 , it will just be going into the pockets of Arriva .

Just imagine if there was a bus full of Arriva ticket holders on a bus operated by Merseytravel , this would put the route under even more strain and could eventually be pulled from lack of revenue and we all know that Merseytravel are now becoming ruthless with bus routes .

[E400]

RE: Arriva put Prices up again

(26/02/2015 01:04)CX06 EBK Wrote:  You can use your Arriva and Stagecoach tickets on each others services in Liverpool on the 10/14/53/82/86 without issue. The only time you can't use them is on the sections not served by that operator, such as the Garston - Speke section on the 82 or the Garston - Liverpool Airport section on the 86A, as Arriva only operate on that section. As for the 14/79C I believe this is due to change soon, I'm not sure weather this will include the normal 79 but I wouldn't see why not. As most people who have Stagecoach tickets won't live beyond Garston as there is no services operated there by Stagecoach, those restrictions previously mentioned wouldn't make much of a difference anyway.

You can't use monthly, annual , or school and uni term passes in Liverpool on QBP. Absolutely ridiculous and completely unfair. Merseytravel short sort it out. I have friends who rarely use buses asking if they can use their Arriva tickets on the Stagecoach 86. I have to then go through the rigmarole of explaining all the clauses to them.

[Barney]

RE: Arriva put Prices up again

(26/02/2015 07:40)Enviro400 Wrote:  You can't use monthly, annual , or school and uni term passes in Liverpool on QBP. Absolutely ridiculous and completely unfair. Merseytravel short sort it out. I have friends who rarely use buses asking if they can use their Arriva tickets on the Stagecoach 86. I have to then go through the rigmarole of explaining all the clauses to them.

Whether we like it or not, the fact that you cannot use one operator's pre-paid tickets on another operator's service makes perfect sense in this deregulated market. Would you expect to be able to use your Tescos coupons in Sainsbury's?

For those who cannot remember that far back, the 1985 Transport Act was designed to create a situation where competition was (sorry for the pun) the driving force. Also it is only in recent years that the main players have introduced monthly and annual passes as a means of retaining its customer base. As far as I know, Merseyside is one of the few ITAs that sells the likes of Saveaways and Trio tickets which enables passengers to use any bus service in the area.

I too have a friend who has very recently taken to using the QBPS 86 route and I have had difficulty explaining to her that she CAN use her day-ticket on both Arriva and Stagecoach buses.

London - the place where bus services were privatised but not deregulated - obviously doesn't have this problem.

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Arriva put Prices up again
The inter-availability of tickets on the QBP's is quite a puzzle - as already pointed out - for example on the 10, 10A & 10B - Stagecoach tickets can not be used on the 10B from Bluebell Lane - Huyton which is Arriva only but can be used on the 10 between Toll Bar and Prescot (which is also Arriva only). Also only Day/Weekly paper tickets can be used on each operators services, so no other tickets (including m-Tickets) can be used. No wonder the casual Public Transport is confused.

[Barney]

RE: Arriva put Prices up again

(26/02/2015 09:44)Dentonian Wrote:  Am I misunderstanding Enviro400's point? You both seem to be talking about Quality Bus *Partnerships*, but whilst you are saying you have to explain why each others tickets ARE accepted on the 86, you are also saying that they are not on other QBP routes because that is the point of Deregulation. Surely, all QBPs have the same rules - of which accepting each other's tickets is normally one of the main reasons for having QBPs.
Comparing with Retailers is a false comparison from the consumer's point of view. People will always need to eat and drink (the main revenue earner for Supermarkets), so the market will always be big enough to sustain competition. Buses won't as the market is in permanent decline as car ownership increases, and the industry is being priced out by the low cost of *using* cars, heavly subsidised rail fares, and politicially favoured Light Rail and cycling.

This thread has gone off on a tangent. The initial post questioned why Arriva fares have gone up in an area where Arriva is dominant. The simple answer is because there is little or no competition and passengers - many of whom don't or can't drive - have little or no option.

Regarding the Merseyside QBPS, all of these accept each other's day and weekly tickets but not monthly or annual ones. These routes are shared and each operator provides about 50% of the vehicles.

Personally, I believe that comparing bus operators to supermarkets is a valid one. I can think of several high street brands that have disappeared in the last decade because of a decline in sales, just like many bus operators. I would also suggest that Tescos recent announcement of a drastic drop in profits and store closures parallels First's sell-off of its unprofitable operations to its competitors.

[E400]

RE: Arriva put Prices up again
The point I originally made was that QBP routes, and for that matter, any SHARED routes that aren't QBP, should accept either operators tickets, regardless of ticket type (eg: day, week, month, student, term, annual). The only services that this happens on are the 1/2/471/472 in Wirral, but it should be like this right across the board.

As for likening this to a supermarket, that is a false analogy, as you as a consumer have a choice of where to shop. Most people will go to their nearest supermarket, some will choose to travel further to a shop of choice. The same cannot be said for buses. If I need to get from A to B and the 86 gets me from A to B, and I have an Arriva student pass, then I should be able to get any bus that operates that route alongside Arriva, ie: Stagecoach. I as a consumer have no other option but to wait for an Arriva 86, despite Stagecoach sharing that route for its own commercial gain. It isn't my fault that Arriva and Stagecoach are two operators, it isn't my fault that they share that route, the fact is that I have to get a bus along that route and my ticket is only accepted on effectively half the services, despite it being stamped QBP. There is no partnership if Merseytravel and the operators pride themselves on running a frequent service if people like me have to let buses go because they bought a bus pass with the other operator. In this instance a bus every 5 minutes now becomes every 10; not so great on a cold winters day when you have a massive QBP poster in the bus stop.

Merseytravel shouldn't have allowed these types of "QBPs" to be established as they are fake. The only true QBPs are Heswall and Cheser to Liverpool, and I am grateful and thankful for that as it saves me a lot of time and money being able to use either service on a student ticket. Merseytravel need to get their act together and either sort out the QBPs on these fake corridors or remove their endorsement from them.

[E400]

RE: Arriva put Prices up again

(26/02/2015 16:31)Dentonian Wrote:  Totally agree where QBPs apply. However, Central Government are to blame for inter-availibility of tickets not being available on "shared" routes. Basically, they aren't shared, as they compete with each other, and so accepting each others tickets is seen as "anti-competitive". Yes, there is the alternative of Savaway/Solo (or System One in GM), but there is a premium to pay (eg. 40% on System One DaySavers)

Competition is still possible on QBPs though, the 471/2 for example, where Stagecoach has the stickers advertising cheaper tickets to encourage people to wait for their service when buying a weekly ticket. That seems to be healthy competition whilst performing an actual partnership with Arriva and importantly serving customers in the best possible way.

Does anybody know whether Merseytravel has any powers to enforce this kind of arrangement between operators?