Liverpool City Centre bus re-routing proposals

[MPTE1955]

RE: Liverpool City Centre bus re-routing proposals

(07/04/2021 17:08)iMarkeh Wrote:  The design works fine if lines are allocated to routes and that is what I was saying. In London, the idea of longer lines is the front bus will always be the next bus out and buses move up a space at a time slowly. Based on how everyone looks at London for how to do public transport, that may have been the logic. I am saying though that in this instance it will not work as a free for all but nor will allocating lines work as most routes aren't frequent enough and don't have 3 buses laying over at the same time (those which do will generally be QBPs which are competing operators and often the spacing doesn't work out so buses will end up trapped sometimes.

As I say, the design is ok, just doesn't work in this location as the system which would make this style bus hub work, doesn't work here with the services how they are. If this was the style in L1, it wouldn't be as bad (79s get a line, 82s get a line, 86s get a line, 10As get a line etc). Too many services though on slightly lower frequencies and less layover meaning no route has 3 buses on layover at a time to fill a line so you would have 1/3rd of the bus hub not being used.

Two bus drivers beg to differ as they have already said. I'm not even going to add to that. The drivers use it so I'll stick with what they say.

[Liamkennedy2231]

RE: Liverpool City Centre bus re-routing proposals
Just my twopence but one way that this could be improved is if the spaces are placed adjacent to each other, so they all reverse into a space and are all neatly parked up so, when they’re ready, they can just drive out without the worry if who’s got how long on layover. It would also have the added bonus of engines facing away from the residential buildings, so would at least be quieter for them.

Attached a pic to show what I mean.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Liverpool City Centre bus re-routing proposals

(07/04/2021 17:19)MPTE1955 Wrote:  Two bus drivers beg to differ as they have already said. I'm not even going to add to that. The drivers use it so I'll stick with what they say.

You're reading what I am saying but not understanding it. As I say, lines have to be allocated to routes for this style to work. It works in London because of that reason.


@liam,
That would work to solve the issue of buses getting out, it creates another issue though which is the locals will complain of the reversing horn sounds going off constantly. It would maybe be a good idea if it wasn't in an area which is already complaining about noise.

[Liamkennedy2231]

RE: Liverpool City Centre bus re-routing proposals

(08/04/2021 07:42)iMarkeh Wrote:  You're reading what I am saying but not understanding it. As I say, lines have to be allocated to routes for this style to work. It works in London because of that reason.


@liam,
That would work to solve the issue of buses getting out, it creates another issue though which is the locals will complain of the reversing horn sounds going off constantly. It would maybe be a good idea if it wasn't in an area which is already complaining about noise.

The reverse horn can be silenced for exactly this purpose can’t it?

[MPTE1955]

RE: Liverpool City Centre bus re-routing proposals

(08/04/2021 07:42)iMarkeh Wrote:  You're reading what I am saying but not understanding it. As I say, lines have to be allocated to routes for this style to work. It works in London because of that reason.


@liam,
That would work to solve the issue of buses getting out, it creates another issue though which is the locals will complain of the reversing horn sounds going off constantly. It would maybe be a good idea if it wasn't in an area which is already complaining about noise.

I don't need you to tell me what I'm reading,. I understand perfectly, I don't agree. I don't drive a bus, the best people opinions of this are those that have to use it. I.el THE DRIVERS. They have to use it so they know best.

[MTL0201]

RE: Liverpool City Centre bus re-routing proposals

(08/04/2021 07:42)iMarkeh Wrote:  You're reading what I am saying but not understanding it. As I say, lines have to be allocated to routes for this style to work. It works in London because of that reason.


@liam,
That would work to solve the issue of buses getting out, it creates another issue though which is the locals will complain of the reversing horn sounds going off constantly. It would maybe be a good idea if it wasn't in an area which is already complaining about noise.

Your such an expert how about you run a bus company then.

[L401CJF]

RE: Liverpool City Centre bus re-routing proposals
The logic of a London style one route per line thing wouldn't work in the hub. It's too small. It is 3 spaces side by side with another 3 spaces behind. Can hold 6, plus 2 in a row on the street (not a problem on this one as the rear bus can easily get out)

If only 2 or 3 routes had layover in the hub that would be fine and easy to organise, however a lot more than 3 services layover in the Queen Sq area, hence why there are buses parked in empty bus stops, on double yellows, and on Victoria St outside the Shankly Hotel most of the time. Then after 9pm the Cross Rivers don't serve Cook St and then finish at Whitechapel, so they've got to squeeze in too.

It's very rare I use the hub full stop except late at night when it's quiet, I prefer to hide on Dale Street somewhere out of the way.

And yes reverse horns can be turned off easily for exactly this reason, however the general rule is no reversing without a banksman and the unions probably wouldn't allow it.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Liverpool City Centre bus re-routing proposals

(08/04/2021 08:14)Liamkennedy2231 Wrote:  The reverse horn can be silenced for exactly this purpose can’t it?

You can silence it but you're not meant to really (except 11pm-7am I think it is when it should be turned off).

(08/04/2021 09:34)L401CJF Wrote:  The logic of a London style one route per line thing wouldn't work in the hub. It's too small. It is 3 spaces side by side with another 3 spaces behind. Can hold 6, plus 2 in a row on the street (not a problem on this one as the rear bus can easily get out)

If only 2 or 3 routes had layover in the hub that would be fine and easy to organise, however a lot more than 3 services layover in the Queen Sq area, hence why there are buses parked in empty bus stops, on double yellows, and on Victoria St outside the Shankly Hotel most of the time. Then after 9pm the Cross Rivers don't serve Cook St and then finish at Whitechapel, so they've got to squeeze in too.

It's very rare I use the hub full stop except late at night when it's quiet, I prefer to hide on Dale Street somewhere out of the way.

And yes reverse horns can be turned off easily for exactly this reason, however the general rule is no reversing without a banksman and the unions probably wouldn't allow it.

100% agree with you. The designer may have thought about using the London style though which is what I was trying to get at but they clearly didn't understand the local area and how it was intended to be used as a somewhat free for all.

It's not good that it's easier for drivers to park in random places, especially when there are (were) facilities available to use at the bus hub which would be very helpful for drivers. I hope that the scheme does get a rethink and isn't overruled by anti bus Labour (well, anti bus unless they personally have control)

[Barney]

RE: Liverpool City Centre bus re-routing proposals

(09/04/2021 06:43)iMarkeh Wrote:  I hope that the scheme does get a rethink and isn't overruled by anti bus Labour (well, anti bus unless they personally have control)

My understanding is that the individual responsible for this total mess announced several months ago that he was stepping down and that his replacement has stated publicly that she viewed the anti-bus policy as being illogical and counter productive if the council wishes to attract more people into the city.

As we all knew when it was first proposed, the re-routing and curtailment of many city centre routes and the much vaunted Old Haymarket bus hub was never going to work. Hopefully, a serious re-appraisal will now be conducted.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Liverpool City Centre bus re-routing proposals

(09/04/2021 08:36)Barney Wrote:  My understanding is that the individual responsible for this total mess announced several months ago that he was stepping down and that his replacement has stated publicly that she viewed the anti-bus policy as being illogical and counter productive if the council wishes to attract more people into the city.

As we all knew when it was first proposed, the re-routing and curtailment of many city centre routes and the much vaunted Old Haymarket bus hub was never going to work. Hopefully, a serious re-appraisal will now be conducted.

That's good. I hadn't heard this. I hope that the replacement does reverse some of all of the changes. I can see some of the idea and I think to an extent, it may have helped some issues but it also made other areas much worse. Having so many buses terminate on Dale Street meant a lot of buses trying to park up in a few stops and there were a number of buses running through quite quiet. Maybe more links could/should be provides such as Moorfields (only had alighting on Dale Street, to get on a bus, you would have be walking to Lord Street or Queen Square) and/or Old Hall Street. So many buses continued through to the same places and with how few people there were per bus, moving people onto less buses makes sense. I think operators were a bit worried though of the change. Even if the bus routing is reverted though, there will be some issues if the Castle Street closure is kept as that will rid one of the main routes in the city forcing every bus onto The Strand to get to James Street/Lord Street which won't be very good. There does need to be more city centre termini.