Route History

[Walton 46]

RE: Route History
I've just come across on Flickr the cover for a timetable for the Wirral Penninsula service 410/411 Liverpool - Bromborough/Eastham. According to the cover, the 411 used to serve the University and the Royal Liverpool Hospital. Any ideas of the route taken within the city centre and where any other cross-river buses extended beyond Queen Square as well?

[Gillmoss 0324]

RE: Route History

(21/08/2020 08:25)Walton 46 Wrote:  I've just come across on Flickr the cover for a timetable for the Wirral Penninsula service 410/411 Liverpool - Bromborough/Eastham. According to the cover, the 411 used to serve the University and the Royal Liverpool Hospital. Any ideas of the route taken within the city centre and where any other cross-river buses extended beyond Queen Square as well?

Not 100% but IIRC the 411 ran from Whitechapel via the Gyratory/later Queen Square like the 6, 40, 79's via Lime Street and Brownlow Hill then I think it looped back along Crown Street for the Royal, London Road, Lime Street and Gryratory/Queen Square back out again. Afain I'm not sure if the 411 did run that loop or had a brief layover at Crown Street. Not sure if this was officially allowed but when the newer Palatine 2's arrived in 95/96 I rode a 411 from QS to Brownlow Hill on a C-Zone Saveaway similar to how you could get on the 431/432/433 at Scotland Road too.

I'm not sure when the 411 got curtailed but late '90's that Royal Hospital extension had ended again Arriva have come off the Bromborough to Liverpool route too.

[Gillmoss 0324]

RE: Route History

(18/08/2020 00:13)MTL0201 Wrote:  My 1988 & 1990 maps show a 28/29 circular route operated by North Western, this followed the current 52 Liverpool-Netherton, then by 1990 28/29 was diverted in Bootle via Orrell Road & Watts Lane[current 52A route], from Netherton 28/29 went via the old 30 route back to City Centre, but via Scotland Road rather than Netherfield Road North/South & Shaw Street, not sure when the 28/29 were withdrawn

There was also the short lived Merseybus 28 in 1997. Not 100% on it's route but I think it ran a similar route like the current 52's to Linacre Lane then ran along Netherton Way/Dunnings Bridge Road to Netherton. Again not 100% but I think it might have ran along Great Homer Street to/from the city centre too.

I'm not sure if they interworked with Merseybus's 53/55's but they used the last of Gillmoss's Wright Endurance/Volvo's from the 6607-23 batch they did so assume they did. I think the 28's may have latterly interrworked with the 3/30's when Fareway was closed and integrated into Gillmoss but it didn't last that long as IIRC it was gone by that sumner.

To be honest the route number and general number of other routes in/around the general Bootle area didn't make it a success and they were generally not that well used when I used a few 28's around that time. Sadly like many places their probably is a 'need' for a route like that, MPTE/Ribble days certainly had such links, but unless deregulation disappears and subsidies increase considerably no chance of such a service working these days.

I think the 56 is the only route which covers parts of that now and doesn't serve the Stand either.

[bootlelad2015]

RE: Route History

(21/08/2020 18:35)Gillmoss 0324 Wrote:  There was also the short lived Merseybus 28 in 1997. Not 100% on it's route but I think it ran a similar route like the current 52's to Linacre Lane then ran along Netherton Way/Dunnings Bridge Road to Netherton. Again not 100% but I think it might have ran along Great Homer Street to/from the city centre too.

I'm not sure if they interworked with Merseybus's 53/55's but they used the last of Gillmoss's Wright Endurance/Volvo's from the 6607-23 batch they did so assume they did. I think the 28's may have latterly interrworked with the 3/30's when Fareway was closed and integrated into Gillmoss but it didn't last that long as IIRC it was gone by that sumner.

To be honest the route number and general number of other routes in/around the general Bootle area didn't make it a success and they were generally not that well used when I used a few 28's around that time. Sadly like many places their probably is a 'need' for a route like that, MPTE/Ribble days certainly had such links, but unless deregulation disappears and subsidies increase considerably no chance of such a service working these days.

I think the 56 is the only route which covers parts of that now and doesn't serve the Stand either.

The 28 was exactly the same as its original route via Linacre Road, Bridge Road, Church Road, Dunnings Bridge Road and Park Lane West - which is exact same between Bootle Strand & Netherton as current 159

[bootlelad2015]

RE: Route History

(17/08/2020 21:07)Walton 46 Wrote:  Something I've been wondering for a while: prior to the North Western 82/82A Netherton-Speke, was there an equivalent to today's 52/52A route?

Post deregulation saw the original 58/58A/58B/158/258 group routes operating Liverpool/Bootle Strand - Litherland Hatton Hill via Hawthorne Rd or Orrell Ln in some guise or other with both MB & NW covering these workings at some point. After a period of time that saw overlaps with Sefton Road/Netherton services 28/29 and the extended 82 resulted in original 58 group eventually being replaced with the 82 taking Hawthorne and the 28/29 taking Orrell Ln eventually replaced by 82A upon their withdrawal.

[MTL0201]

RE: Route History
It's quite funny when i see the frequencies of the Liverpool-Southport routes 47 & X2, after d-reg the old 284 was hourly, not sure what the X37 frequency was, may have been peaks only, but the replacement X8 Chester-Banks was hourly giving 2 buses an hour on 284/X8, now its 5 an hour with 47 every 20 minutes, & the X2 every 30 minutes

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Route History
Think after Dereg, the 284 was hourly supplemented by a 285 as far as either Formby or Freshfield (can't quite remember how far it went). Also at dereg, there was the short lived Peak hours only X2 (Liverpool - Southport) from Toppings.

[MTL0201]

RE: Route History

(23/08/2020 07:11)St Helens Rider Wrote:  Think after Dereg, the 284 was hourly supplemented by a 285 as far as either Formby or Freshfield (can't quite remember how far it went). Also at dereg, there was the short lived Peak hours only X2 (Liverpool - Southport) from Toppings.

Yep forgot about the 285, that the 285 went to Freshfield Liverpool Road [Formby By Pass] from d-reg, before d-reg the 285 went to Freshfield Station.

Been posted before, Liverpool-Southport was originally S1/S2/S3 which was withdrawn in 1978, with the improvement in the rail service, S4/S5 introduced but Liverpool-Freshfield Liverpool Road [Formby By Pass] [S4] or Freshfield Station[S5].

[MTL0201]

RE: Route History
Anyone know when the 352/362 were split at Wigan, as at d-reg these were extended from Wigan to Chorley via the pre d-reg 125 route[now 362 route], there was a 342/352/362/372, main differences were between Billinge & Wigan, as 342 went via Winstanley Road, Pemberton Road, Highfield Grange Avenue & Poolstock Lane, 352 was the direct route via Upholland Road, St James Road, Moor Road, 362 via Orrell Station, 372 via Tontine, but all operated through to Chorley

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Route History

(25/08/2020 12:10)MTL0201 Wrote:  Anyone know when the 352/362 were split at Wigan, as at d-reg these were extended from Wigan to Chorley via the pre d-reg 125 route[now 362 route], there was a 342/352/362/372, main differences were between Billinge & Wigan, as 342 went via Winstanley Road, Pemberton Road, Highfield Grange Avenue & Poolstock Lane, 352 was the direct route via Upholland Road, St James Road, Moor Road, 362 via Orrell Station, 372 via Tontine, but all operated through to Chorley

Think it was in the late 90s with the Sunday being cut back possibly as late as Arriva's MTL takeover in 2000 as I know the Sunday service was still running through in 1999 when I used use the Day Rider on a weekend. The ticket then had a condition where if bought after 3pm on a Friday was valid though until Monday morning - now that was value for money!