Transport for Wales Rail

[iMarkeh]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail

(07/07/2020 10:19)knutstransport Wrote:  I'm not sure usual revenue comes in to it. The 07:40 Manchester-Altrincham-Chester is usually rammed on arrival at Knutsford, the same with the 08:00 Chester-Altrincham-Manchester but Northern don't think they need to operate either of those two services at the moment and when people have told Northern they need those services to run for getting to work Northern's response is earlier/later services are being operated with 4 carriages so you can just use one of them instead.

Given that Buxton line services are normally quite busy at peak times and are usually very quiet at off-peak times and everywhere on the Buxton line has alternative public transport options you'd think perhaps Northern would try to run half-hourly at peak times and 2 hourly at off-peak times but no they're running hourly all day with some extra services at peak times. The only logical explanation for that is that Northern are short of train crews and a higher proportion of train crews sign the Buxton line, meaning the risk of a cancellation due to staffing shortages would be higher on the Mid-Cheshire if they were running an hourly service, than it is on the Buxton line.


Interworking it with Leeds services would mean more 195s are needed or some Chester-Leeds services would get Sprinters instead of 195s (unless another route got 15xs instead of 195s.)

The morning service which runs Victoria-Chester only is booked as a 150 and does a Mid-Cheshire working afterwards, before going on to the Buxton line.

Few points.
The amount of carriages available is finite and it might just be that they can't manage to make the 2 trains you mention into 4 cars. There is a lot more network than just the Mid Cheshire Line and everyone wants more capacity. A lot of services are ran as per the contract with the Department for Transport. It is not as easy as just cutting a service back, they have to run at a minimum what the DFT want them to.


As for Northern running CTR - MIA, the 195s could be done by downgrading another route or just looking at the overall allocations. It's not going to happen anytime soon so there is no point needlessly speculating on what could happen.
The 150 Vic-Ctr morning service essentially replaces what was a morning ECS movement. Just because 1 train does a service (which could be done for many reasons including get more money from ORCATS or be done due to the train service requirements contract), you can't base a whole trains service off that.

[knutstransport]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail
^ I wasn't complaining about commuter Mid-Cheshire services being 2 cars. I was referring to the fact there is ample patronage on them normally but Northern have decided not to run them in their COVID-19 timetable, so there's likely some other issue like a shortfall of drivers who sign the route. This was in response to someone saying they thought Northern would be providing a better service than TfW if they ran Chester-Warrington-Airport as they'll make money from it. The evidence shows if anything it's crew availability that dictates the service level on Northern services currently not passenger demand.

I'm not sure the unit off the Victoria-Chestsr does just replace an ECS. That working is only 2 cars and there is still an ECS of Sprinters to Chester when the normal timetable operates. If anything running that Victoria-Chester service makes the second Chester-Stockport less reliable as if there are issues on the Earlestown line it runs late or cancelled as the Victoria-Chester service can't run via Denton instead like an ECS from Newton Heath can.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail

(08/07/2020 06:10)knutstransport Wrote:  ^ I wasn't complaining about commuter Mid-Cheshire services being 2 cars. I was referring to the fact there is ample patronage on them normally but Northern have decided not to run them in their COVID-19 timetable, so there's likely some other issue like a shortfall of drivers who sign the route. This was in response to someone saying they thought Northern would be providing a better service than TfW if they ran Chester-Warrington-Airport as they'll make money from it. The evidence shows if anything it's crew availability that dictates the service level on Northern services currently not passenger demand.

I'm not sure the unit off the Victoria-Chestsr does just replace an ECS. That working is only 2 cars and there is still an ECS of Sprinters to Chester when the normal timetable operates. If anything running that Victoria-Chester service makes the second Chester-Stockport less reliable as if there are issues on the Earlestown line it runs late or cancelled as the Victoria-Chester service can't run via Denton instead like an ECS from Newton Heath can.

Oh, Northern would probably treat Victoria to Chester quite well as they seemed to do pre covid. I think the Covid timetables is just Northern running the minimum they can on all lines. The Mid Cheshire line I admit isn't looked after much and i'm not sure why.

The Vic-Chester Sprinter ECS movement is at a 6am. It can't divert because it has a path set via Earlestown. It's not easy to divert trains ECS or in service. It ran via Earlestown prior to the regular passenger services. I don't know if it is just replacing ECS or it's a contractual agreement (perhaps both). Either one, it's a welcome additional trip.

Anyway, this is way off topic from what I said originally. These posts should perhaps be moved to the Northern thread.

[knutstransport]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail

(08/07/2020 06:43)iMarkeh Wrote:  Oh, Northern would probably treat Victoria to Chester quite well as they seemed to do pre covid. I think the Covid timetables is just Northern running the minimum they can on all lines. The Mid Cheshire line I admit isn't looked after much and i'm not sure why.

The Vic-Chester Sprinter ECS movement is at a 6am. It can't divert because it has a path set via Earlestown. It's not easy to divert trains ECS or in service. It ran via Earlestown prior to the regular passenger services. I don't know if it is just replacing ECS or it's a contractual agreement (perhaps both). Either one, it's a welcome additional trip.

I fail to see where the evidence is that Northern would provide a better service than TfW Rail. The Victoria-Chester services get 195s because they are part of which was going to be branded a 'Northern Connect' service from Leeds. The only short 'Northern Connect' service is Manchester Airport to Liverpool via Warrington and it was a franchise requirement for high spec trains to used on that service due to people expressing concerns that transferring a semi-fast from TPE to Northern would mean a downgrade in rolling stock. The Huddersfield-Halifax-Bradford service is not a Northern Connect or 195 route even though it part duplicates a Northern Connect route.

The trains on the Llandudno-Manchester Airport route would meet the Northern Connect requirements and they are to be replaced by brand new CAF Civity trains anyway. It's rare for either Northern or TfW Rail to run a diesel formation of more than 3 carriages.

I'll reply to your comment about ECS workings to/from Chester in the Northern thread.

[ant17612]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail
230006 is out and about on test on the Wrexham to Bidston route.

[SNL 824]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail
It arrived at Wrexham on Monday evening, and was scheduled to test on Tuesday but didn't. Not sure if it was out yesterday. But major progress to have it here.

[knutstransport]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail
Is the 230 on Chester-Crewe still temporary until they enhance the Borderlands frequency once the new CAF trains are in service?

[mikestone]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail
Essential travel restriction on public transport in Wales
withdrawn from tomorrow.
;
https://gov.wales/essential-travel-restr...-be-lifted
'

[313201]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail
I spotted a 3 coach Class 230 unit at Bidston about 15 to 20 minutes ago but unfortunately was unable to get its unit number as I was in the car at the time I spotted it.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Transport for Wales Rail
4 x Class 230s (Including 3 for TFW) have now been approved for public service.

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/fil...-08-27.pdf