Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues

[Barney]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(15/10/2018 06:00)childwallblues Wrote:  Oneties speak I assume. Who invents these stoopid quotes.

I agree, the name of the company is very Oneties, but the real issue is prioritising on the needs of the the occasional cyclist with a large blue box full of hot food strapped to his/her back is not going to help improve the travelling experience of the hundreds of thousands of bus passengers in this city.

Until someone in authority, whether it be Joe Anderson or Steve Rotherham, takes the initiative and introduces bus priority schemes the constant gridlock that is Hanover Street will continue to impact on the ability of SC (and Arriva) to provide a reliable bus service around the city centre.

[motormayhem1]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot
Lime street is another gridlock area as sometimes it can take 15-20 mins to get from the bottom of london road to queen square.

[EDB325]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(14/10/2018 22:06)Y474 KNF Wrote:  Deliveroo is a food delivery company

It's another example of the "gig economy". Cheaper to run for the fast food outfits than a car, better than employing their own staff, and if the delivery goes amiss the blame gets shifted. The cyclists and moped riders that Deliveroo use are largely a mix of students and immigrants, and have to work really hard to make a pittance, hence their almost total disregard for the safety of other road users. Think Uber on two wheels - but as a former black cab driver, don't even start me on Uber !

[mr t]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(15/10/2018 08:21)motormayhem1 Wrote:  Lime street is another gridlock area as sometimes it can take 15-20 mins to get from the bottom of london road to queen square.

And that is because Queen Square was only built with 4 alighting bays so traffic builds up along Lime Street
to and up London Road pretty much all day, as the traffic lights into it from St Johns Lane only have space for 4 buses at a time so traffic has to wait on Lime St...always been that way since was opened....but has anything been done to help buses since ??? Well about 2 years ago they made the left hand lane buses only but thats about HOWEVER now traffic from the station side is queuing up the outside lane they block buses from London Road side from being to enter it now until the lights change at Queen Square

[mr t]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(15/10/2018 08:38)EDB325 Wrote:  It's another example of the "gig economy". Cheaper to run for the fast food outfits than a car, better than employing their own staff, and if the delivery goes amiss the blame gets shifted. The cyclists and moped riders that Deliveroo use are largely a mix of students and immigrants, and have to work really hard to make a pittance, hence their almost total disregard for the safety of other road users. Think Uber on two wheels - but as a former black cab driver, don't even start me on Uber !

There is Uber eats as well all over town that also disregard any rules. I thought it was just me who thought Uber taxis hadnt even passed their driving tests!!! Both just as bad should be banished

[iMarkeh]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(15/10/2018 08:21)motormayhem1 Wrote:  Lime street is another gridlock area as sometimes it can take 15-20 mins to get from the bottom of london road to queen square.

(15/10/2018 13:26)mr t Wrote:  And that is because Queen Square was only built with 4 alighting bays so traffic builds up along Lime Street
to and up London Road pretty much all day, as the traffic lights into it from St Johns Lane only have space for 4 buses at a time so traffic has to wait on Lime St...always been that way since was opened....but has anything been done to help buses since ??? Well about 2 years ago they made the left hand lane buses only but thats about HOWEVER now traffic from the station side is queuing up the outside lane they block buses from London Road side from being to enter it now until the lights change at Queen Square

What can be done though at Queen Square? There isn't really much space to put extra alighting bays. The only option is to move a few alighting buses into the empty stands.
Stands 12 could be for the 47 & X2. Stand 11 for the 53, Stand 10 for 300, 310, 345 (retime these services so there aren't so many clashes). These can then allow pick ups and drop offs on the stand. No need for using the alighting stand. Put all L1 buses into Stand 10 (10A, 79C, 79D). Combined, that takes around 37 buses per hour out of the alighting stand which should be a massive help.

It's a shame Whitechapel isn't any better for alighting or you could move buses round there. Compared to other big cities, Liverpool has a lot of buses going the same way. Manchester you have buses going round to all the different termini using what generally feels like 'back streets'. I don't see why Liverpool buses all feel the need to follow eachother. Why doesn't a someone mix things up a little. No bus runs from the top of Low Hill towards Brownlow Hill. Back when the flyover was open, nothing ran from London Road, over the flyover to avoid the traffic into Queen Square.

Though Queen Square is a busy stop, I think bus companies would encourage more people to use buses by avoiding Queen Square as it's such a busy point. If you work in the city centre, it's probably quicker to drive if it is taking you 15 mins to get from London Road to Queen Square on a bus. Pall Mall/Old Hall Street areas have lots of offices, why does only the 54A and the tendered 136 go over that way? Again, avoiding Queen Square, you could get some of these office workers. If you live in south Liverpool, there is no way of getting to these areas without using the D buses but they go through Queen Square.

Why can't buses in Liverpool just follow their own route. Busy stops may only be busy because it's quicker to walk than it is to catch the bus. More express buses and those not serving traffic hotspots might just up passenger numbers.

[Nwales Bus]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(15/10/2018 08:21)motormayhem1 Wrote:  Lime street is another gridlock area as sometimes it can take 15-20 mins to get from the bottom of london road to queen square.

Doesn't help on the outbound journey with a lane closed due to the works on the new Lidl

[buses7675 (Website Founder)]

RE: Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues
I've split this off from the Gillmoss thread as it was a bit off topic, however very interesting and a good lively discussion!

As you were, please continue!

[Barney]

RE: Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues

(15/10/2018 18:45)buses7675 Wrote:  I've split this off from the Gillmoss thread as it was a bit off topic, however very interesting and a good lively discussion!

As you were, please continue!

I'm glad you told me that because I had no recollection of starting this thread.

I think that we would all agree that the whole thing is a mess and local politicians have no plan or inclination to resolve this issue as, in this city, travelling by bus is a mode of last resort. I wonder when either of the two mayors last used a bus?

[mr t]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(15/10/2018 17:52)iMarkeh Wrote:  What can be done though at Queen Square? There isn't really much space to put extra alighting bays. The only option is to move a few alighting buses into the empty stands.
Stands 12 could be for the 47 & X2. Stand 11 for the 53, Stand 10 for 300, 310, 345 (retime these services so there aren't so many clashes). These can then allow pick ups and drop offs on the stand. No need for using the alighting stand. Put all L1 buses into Stand 10 (10A, 79C, 79D). Combined, that takes around 37 buses per hour out of the alighting stand which should be a massive help.

It's a shame Whitechapel isn't any better for alighting or you could move buses round there. Compared to other big cities, Liverpool has a lot of buses going the same way. Manchester you have buses going round to all the different termini using what generally feels like 'back streets'. I don't see why Liverpool buses all feel the need to follow eachother. Why doesn't a someone mix things up a little. No bus runs from the top of Low Hill towards Brownlow Hill. Back when the flyover was open, nothing ran from London Road, over the flyover to avoid the traffic into Queen Square.

Though Queen Square is a busy stop, I think bus companies would encourage more people to use buses by avoiding Queen Square as it's such a busy point. If you work in the city centre, it's probably quicker to drive if it is taking you 15 mins to get from London Road to Queen Square on a bus. Pall Mall/Old Hall Street areas have lots of offices, why does only the 54A and the tendered 136 go over that way? Again, avoiding Queen Square, you could get some of these office workers. If you live in south Liverpool, there is no way of getting to these areas without using the D buses but they go through Queen Square.

Why can't buses in Liverpool just follow their own route. Busy stops may only be busy because it's quicker to walk than it is to catch the bus. More express buses and those not serving traffic hotspots might just up passenger numbers.

What should have been done at the start was stands 9-12 never built, it should have been alighting side that side, 2 big bays. Before it was built the old station was over 10 buses length the alighting bay, AND the cross river services all used to depart from the bottom stands with no problems at all there, 3 lanes wide both directions also wasnt any stops on Sir Thomas Street because the old "Gyratory" fitted everything and you could turn around at the bottom by the Conservation Centre with no traffic lights so no need to use Victoria Street or Crosshall St, AND there was a turning point halfway up for the cross rivers to use having come up Whitechapel, then turn instead of using St Johns Lane.


The council and Miserytravel decided to sell off most of the land around Queen Square to development and that is when the hotel, BK and that complex, the current
Merseytravel Centre and the big retail block containing the LFC store/Iceland/Matalan and Yates was built. The old bus station used to be as wide as where stand 1 is now to the far side of the taxi rank on Whitechapel by junction of Sir Thomas Street, with the taxi rank located around the entrance to the loading bay that has always been there. That was also when Hanover St began to be used for South buses because they knew Queen Square couldnt cope. Before that every single service used to use Hood Street Gyratory - Im sure there were about 20 loading "bays" end to end outbound, one long continuous bus shelter and not actually separated physically so in the 90s during the proper competition you would have buses loading next to each other in the road trying to beat each other off the stand.

Now we have the situation single file both ways, cant get passed 2 buses on the stand, stand 1(79S) and 5(15/18) only get 1 bus at a time, stand 1 blocks Whitechapel and exiting Queen Square when 2 79s are there, only 1 bus loads at a time, and only 4 buses can alight.
The unusual situation that for some reason has continued for 10 years now is all the Bootle services still terminate at Queen Square not Whitechapel and half have to use it twice to get layover on St Johns Lane, then use stands 9-12 which really adds up the number of buses that could easily be removed.