Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues

[Barney]

Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues
I saw two 86's heading towards L1 via Duke Street this afternoon as Hanover Street was gridlocked. I really don't know why Duke Street isn't used officially for SOME 82's and 86's during daytime operation.

[Brickmill]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(13/10/2018 17:13)Barney Wrote:  I saw two 86's heading towards L1 via Duke Street this afternoon as Hanover Street was gridlocked. I really don't know why Duke Street isn't used officially for SOME 82's and 86's during daytime operation.

Presumably because even with a "caveat" in the registration to cover diversions due to congestion, Operators would have to specify *which* journeys. Also, how often are these services registered/scheduled to run? Would it break the "FQ" intervals rule. ie. would it mean reducing buses along either route from 6 or more an hour to less than 6? Finally, how would passengers know?

[iMarkeh]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(13/10/2018 17:13)Barney Wrote:  I saw two 86's heading towards L1 via Duke Street this afternoon as Hanover Street was gridlocked. I really don't know why Duke Street isn't used officially for SOME 82's and 86's during daytime operation.

The more variations you add to a route, the more difficult it is to control. If you have 1 set route and just divert a few buses, it is easier for drivers, passengers and the company. If they did an 82 and 86 via Duke Street. Let's face it, people get confused very easily.

Hanover Street needs sorting ASAP. It should be buses and access only. Have multi use delivery bays/taxi ranks which are only operational at nights and very select times during the day possibly for deliveries. I work out roughly 86 buses use Hanover Street per hour (40 towards L1, 46 towards Elliot Street). Who in their right minds thinks about allowing large delivery trucks, taxis (who generally are a law to themselves) and normal cars on the same 1 lane road. And then to top it all off, a give way at the end which works against the buses.

If Hanover street got sorted properly, the 82s would be put back and save the passengers the hassle of waiting for the 82C.

[MPTE1955]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot
Only way to do it would be to but a letter next to the number.

[Barney]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(13/10/2018 19:52)MPTE1955 Wrote:  Only way to do it would be to put a letter next to the number.

I thought that as well. How about simply rerouting the 82C and the 86C to operate via Duke Street? It would provide a much quicker service to L1 and also a faster service out of the city centre.

[buses7675 (Website Founder)]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(13/10/2018 20:56)Barney Wrote:  I thought that as well. How about simply rerouting the 82C and the 86C to operate via Duke Street? It would provide a much quicker service to L1 and also a faster service out of the city centre.

82C doesn't go into Liverpool ONE though, the idea is it serves Renshaw Street inbound because the normal 82 no longer goes that way.

82s currently go down Park Lane inbound, 82 takes the classic route as far as Renshaw Street but then turn around at Great Charlotte Street and go back out to South Parkway from there.

[mr t]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(13/10/2018 19:47)iMarkeh Wrote:  The more variations you add to a route, the more difficult it is to control. If you have 1 set route and just divert a few buses, it is easier for drivers, passengers and the company. If they did an 82 and 86 via Duke Street. Let's face it, people get confused very easily.

Hanover Street needs sorting ASAP. It should be buses and access only. Have multi use delivery bays/taxi ranks which are only operational at nights and very select times during the day possibly for deliveries. I work out roughly 86 buses use Hanover Street per hour (40 towards L1, 46 towards Elliot Street). Who in their right minds thinks about allowing large delivery trucks, taxis (who generally are a law to themselves) and normal cars on the same 1 lane road. And then to top it all off, a give way at the end which works against the buses.

If Hanover street got sorted properly, the 82s would be put back and save the passengers the hassle of waiting for the 82C.

Hanover Street will get even worse after Xmas when all the 7/14/61/79s are put up and down there as well with the new bus strategy although the 82s outbound are meant to go up Park Lane instead of Hanover.
About 80% of traffic down it is already bus/taxi/coach.
Duke Street as it is is as bad as Hanover of a weekend and evenings especially with all the car parking by the restaurants and past Slater St so when traffic is waiting outbound from the traffic lights at Berry St buses have to wait to get past it can take time during peak times because of the amount of traffic queuing back. Also if Hanover St was to get restricted from the bottom of the lights then the diverted traffic would have to to use Duke St which means even longer queues.

The big problem is there is no way to leave the car park by Tesco other than Hanover St so the cars build up from the lights and have no thought for buses. Plus there is nowhere for taxis to drop off or wait so they park literally anywhere with hotel after hotel and apartments and restaurants after restaurant after pub after pub appearing over the last 5 years, people need dropping or picking up everywhere coz people dont want to walk, all the councils fault - there was also not one taxi rank built when L One built.
There is also 4 roads running down from Berry St towards Hanover which means all that traffic is impossible to stop accessing Hanover. Also on leaving the Centre Hanover towards Lime St there is no alternative routes for the deliveries or cars to use like there is inbound with 4 roads feeding it, and the 5th one which was 2way by the car park blocked for 2 years so far. Central Station and the hotels have no loading bays either so taxis have to wait in the road while loading, as well as loading for all the businesses down there plus all the National Express coaches that have also been made to use it because the council wanted to close the coach station on London Road, so it is virtually impossible for the council to police except for the section inbound from the Adelphi to Church Street, and that is only policed around xmas times.

The council love narrowing roads in Liverpool we have already had Renshaw St & Berry St, Hardman St, Sir Thomas St, Castle ST, Water St, Tithebarn St, Chapel St, Old Hall St, Dale St, North John St - Victoria St starts after Xmas and Lime ST down to 1 lane each way and blocking it in the middle, and then narrowing The Strand and closing Mann Island.
Oh and plus the flyovers are shut for 6 months...so where else is the traffic meant to go!
The council only care about bikes and pedestrians, also dont forget the has also scrapped all the bus lanes, so buses have no chance with this council. Liverpool is the most anti bus place in the country and also has no park & rides must be the only city in the country that doesnt,

[iMarkeh]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(14/10/2018 13:00)mr t Wrote:  Hanover Street will get even worse after Xmas when all the 7/14/61/79s are put up and down there as well with the new bus strategy although the 82s outbound are meant to go up Park Lane instead of Hanover.
About 80% of traffic down it is already bus/taxi/coach.
Duke Street as it is is as bad as Hanover of a weekend and evenings especially with all the car parking by the restaurants and past Slater St so when traffic is waiting outbound from the traffic lights at Berry St buses have to wait to get past it can take time during peak times because of the amount of traffic queuing back. Also if Hanover St was to get restricted from the bottom of the lights then the diverted traffic would have to to use Duke St which means even longer queues.

The big problem is there is no way to leave the car park by Tesco other than Hanover St so the cars build up from the lights and have no thought for buses. Plus there is nowhere for taxis to drop off or wait so they park literally anywhere with hotel after hotel and apartments and restaurants after restaurant after pub after pub appearing over the last 5 years, people need dropping or picking up everywhere coz people dont want to walk, all the councils fault.
There is also 4 roads running down from Berry St towards Hanover which means all that traffic is impossible to stop accessing Hanover. Also on leaving the Centre Hanover towards Lime St there is no alternative routes for the deliveries or cars to use like there is inbound with 4 roads feeding it. Central Station and the hotels have no loading bays either so taxis have to wait in the road while loading, as well as loading for all the businesses down there plus all the National Express coaches that have also been made to use it because the council wanted to close the coach station on London Road, so it is virtually impossible for the council to police except for the section inbound from the Adelphi to Church Street, and that is only policed around xmas times.

The council love narrowing roads in Liverpool we have already had Renshaw St & Berry St, Hardman St, Sir Thomas St, Castle ST, Water St, Tithebarn St, Chapel St, Old Hall St, Dale St, North John St - Victoria St starts after Xmas and Lime ST down to 1 lane each way and blocking it in the middle, and then narrowing The Strand and closing Mann Island.
Oh and plus the flyovers are shut for 6 months...so where else is the traffic meant to go!
The council only care about bikes and pedestrians, also dont forget the has also scrapped all the bus lanes, so buses have no chance with this council. Liverpool is the most anti bus place in the country and also has no park & rides must be the only city in the country that doesnt,

When are the 7/14/61 being sent down Hanover Street? I have not heard that one.

Though 80% of the traffic on Hanover street is bus/coach/taxi, if you can remove the other 20%, it just helps to make things work a flow a bit better. The delivery trucks park (sometimes badly) in the loading area which can make the road more narrow than it already is.

The way I see it, I don't care about Duke Street as no buses use it as part of service work. Restricting Hanover Street from the Gradwell Street upto Elliot Street will be the best thing. If Duke Street is made worse, that is a somewhat good thing as then people look for alternative ways of getting where they need to go.

Trucks is a big issue but then how you combat that is have set delivery times like Bold Street. Something like nothing between 7am - 7pm.

Taxi ranks should be operational at nights and a few spaces available through the day. This then reduces the number of vehicles. Even if not by much, it is less vehicles.

National Express should never have been sent to L1. It does stop stands being empty but it has caused so many issues. Where that new car park is would be ideal (Victoria St/Crosshall St/Sir Thomas St). A few normal layover spaces for cross river services and 3 NX stands.

Narrowing roads is just a joke. So much of Liverpool is becoming more congested because of the mix of buses and normal traffic. When you have so many high frequency buses, you need bus lanes and wide roads. It's idiotic.

There is a Park and Ride in Liverpool. I don't think anyone used it though and it isn't advertised. There is the Gillmoss Park and Ride. There is a good 600 spaces there which can be used but then either the 19 needs bigger buses or a new park and ride bus service will be needed which can cost a lot of money.

It's interesting how quick councillors are to moan about a bus being dropped but still allow these non bus friendly things to go ahead. I think Stagecoach and Arriva will only put up with it all for so long. If the council become more bus unfriendly, I can see Stagecoach doing an ultimatum like they have with Manchester.

[Brickmill]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot

(14/10/2018 13:00)mr t Wrote:  The council only care about bikes and pedestrians, also dont forget the has also scrapped all the bus lanes, so buses have no chance with this council. Liverpool is the most anti bus place in the country and also has no park & rides must be the only city in the country that doesnt,

I understand your frustration but why do people lump in cyclists and pedestrians together (in political terms)? I think Liverpool city council has plenty of competition in the "most anti-bus" stakes, but in reality cyclists and pedestrians are sworn enemies. Indeed, when I was in Liverpool last week, I noticed it is just as bad as anywhere else for busy pedestrian areas, especially near bus stations/stops, being infested by illegal, dangerous cyclists.

[childwallblues]

RE: Stagecoach MCSL - Gillmoss Depot
Spot on with your comments Glenn. It does not help with the sighting of the bus stop.
After the stop on Brownlow Hill the next stops on the 79C/D arecurrently on Lime Street and at Queen Square. Soon it will be outside Tesco in Hanover Street. only useful if you are going to Liverpool One and useless for people going to work in the Old Hall Street business quarter. I bet Anderson has a chauffer driven car to get him to/from the Cunard Building or Town Hall. The planners couldn't organise a p*** up in a brewery. They can't even repair a traffic light outside the site of the old Coronation pub on Childwall Valley Road whick I reported seven days ago.