Northern (Arriva Rail North)

[knutstransport]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)

(11/08/2017 15:33)wirralbus Wrote:  That was old news .... from nearly 18 months ago.

Simply pointing out a government minister struggled to use a toilet on a Pendolino so if a 319 toilet is more complicated...

[childwallblues]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)

(11/08/2017 15:39)Y474 KNF Wrote:  And does that actually matter?

We are only concerned with new news I am told.!

[mikestone]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)

(06/08/2017 09:25)St Helens Rider Wrote:  Engineering work today between Liverpool & Wigan and Liverpool & Manchester via Chat Moss - there has been no advance warning or notices about this anywhere which isn't good!

Not quite true - I noticed posters at Lime Street still on display yesterday, which makes it even odder that it wasn't mentioned elsewhere.

[Sprinterdriver]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)

(11/08/2017 16:32)Dentonian Wrote:  A double edged sword. Its probably because (in theory) GM Stations have better onward public transport (ie. bus), that parking is free. Despite the 2014/5 RailNorth Review into Fares Strategy, ATN have continued Abellio's policy of using massive public subsidies to compete with commercial bus services. It seems this obviously includes free parking for peak commuters to compliment fare freezes for Off-peak travellers. That said, these areas named in common with an increasing number of suburbs away from "the Regional Centre" have seen bus service reductions.
No doubt, you will be correct in your forecasts of busier roads, and apart from the moral argument of subsidising rail to abstract from bus in a nation with millions of car-less taxpayers, this illustrates the practical folly. The more you replace Bus with Rail, the more suburban pollution and congestion you cause, because people won't or can't walk the increased distance to Rail. After all, in many cases, its the loss of the bus service that's forced them into car ownership.
We see it at Reddish North where the increased overcrowding of single unit trains (and not just at peak times!) is mirrored by increased parking (including on the pavement) at not just the Station, but the side streets across the bridge.

So where there is both a bus service and a rail service the rail service should be withdrawn? Are you for real?

There are both buses and trains between Liverpool and St Helens. The bus takes an hour, the train takes either 20 or 30 mins depending on where it stops. Do you seriously think people would use the bus instead?

Maybe people don't use bus services to railway stations as the connections are lousy, such as Arriva re timing the buses from St Helens Junction to just miss the train arriving, so any intending passengers have to wait around for the next one for 20 minutes.

ARN are operating services as per the franchise agreement, if they didn't they would be in breach of it. As for the massive subsidy, well taking the train operators combined, they pay more money to the Government than is paid out in subsidy, don't blame the rail industry for the problems in the bus industry.

SD.

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
Bus services to/from St Helens Junction have been gradually run down over the last few years to such an extent that it has hit passenger numbers. Explains the reason why TPX are considering stopping one of their services at Lea Green instead of St Helens Junction when services are altered next May.

[childwallblues]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
Is Lea Green car park quite large?

[RedPanda]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)

(13/08/2017 07:20)childwallblues Wrote:  Is Lea Green car park quite large?

Yes with 194 spaces but it's heavily used

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)

(13/08/2017 07:20)childwallblues Wrote:  Is Lea Green car park quite large?

Quite big yes and the area has better road connections as well as more frequent/direct bus routes to/from St Helens Town Centre. The only bugbear being the lower frequency Evening/Sundays.

[mikestone]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
I happened to change trains at St. Helens Junction on Friday and from the absence of any timetable or route information on the stop on the bus turning circle assumed it was no longer served.
Eventually I spotted a bus timetable on the Manchester end of the platform - the problem being there are signs directing alighting passengers to buses pointing towards Liverpool so you miss it, so anyone following the sign could well find themselves waiting for one of the routes that stops on the main road.
;

[knutstransport]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
It's really pointless trying to compare subsides between different forms of transport. TfGM like to boast that Metrolink fares cover the cost of running the trams so claim that Metrolink is a profitable business. Yet TfGM have had huge grants to cover the setup costs of creating new lines. If Metrolink had to repay those costs through leasing costs and track access charges (like rail companies do) Metrolink would be reporting huge losses. It really boils down to DfT wanting to have a profitable rail infrastructure company and will happily subside train operators to pay huge sums to Network Rail for using the rail infrastructure.

Despite that if First Group's sums add up the current TPE franchise will become a profitable franchise over the next few years and Northern's subsidy will reduce.

Fortunately, a train operator can's just choose to stop running a service people rely on because it's not making them enough money.