Northern (Arriva Rail North)

[boby32]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)

(13/05/2017 21:01)Y474 KNF Wrote:  Apparently 319004/5 and 319218/9 have been swapped for 319370/381/4/5

Any reason for that?

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)

(13/05/2017 22:00)boby32 Wrote:  Any reason for that?

I'd imagine it would be to have a more standard fleet of 319/3 EMUs and 319/4 bi-modes

[boby32]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)

(13/05/2017 22:12)Y474 KNF Wrote:  I'd imagine it would be to have a more standard fleet of 319/3 EMUs and 319/4 bi-modes

According to wikipedia, Northern will have 24 class 319/3 and 8 class 319/4.

[childwallblues]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
Wikipedia appears to be up to date. The 20 Class 319/3 that are already at Allerton plus 319370/81/84/85 makes the 24 quoted.

[mikestone]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
According to http://www.brfares.com GMPTE, set the fare.

[ant17612]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)
319365 has returned today to Allerton from Wolverton in the white base livery.

[mikestone]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)

(20/05/2017 19:24)Dentonian Wrote:  Given GMPTE ceased to exist 6 years ago, I wouldn't trust that source. It would still beg the question why Arriva/DB didn't comment when attacked in the MEN for the third rise in 9 months. Nevertheless, I'll do some digging next week.

I realised that but transferring the right to specify fares from the local authority, whatever it chooses to call itself at any point in time, to the train operator is a fairly major alteration so I would have expected it to be picked up if it had happened.
Avantix also shows PGM, although I must admit I cannot find where it actually says that means Greater Manchester.
As for why Arriva don't offload the blame TOCS don't want to upset their paymasters, the prime example being Govia not saying that the DfT has made it clear they must not give in to the RMT.

[knutstransport]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)

(20/05/2017 19:24)Dentonian Wrote:  Given GMPTE ceased to exist 6 years ago, I wouldn't trust that source. It would still beg the question why Arriva/DB didn't comment when attacked in the MEN for the third rise in 9 months. Nevertheless, I'll do some digging next week.

Brfares.com reads from the same database as ticket machines at stations. It doesn't say GMPTE it says "Greater Manchester PTE" meaning TfGM who are the PTE for Greater Manchester, if you search for a West Yorkshire local fare it says "West Yorkshire PTE" meaning Metro. They don't want to have to change the system each time a PTE decides to rebrand itself.

It's in the franchise agreement that PTE subsides must come down and PTE set fares must be brought in line with non-PTE fares. Currently the highest Off-Peak Return fare between 2 Greater Manchester stations is just £5.90 when you can pay £10+ for a 20 mile each way journey outside a PTE area.

[knutstransport]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)

(21/05/2017 18:26)Dentonian Wrote:  I agree with the sentiment of increasing fares to reduce the burden on the taxpayer - given most taxpayers don't travel by train from one year to the next - but its the timing and most of all the differing scales that I object to. Ie. The Wigan fare has increased by about 30% in the year or so since the 32 bus was truncated then withdrawn, but the Reddish North fare has only increased once, and still undercuts the competing, commercial bus service by 70p (£2.30 if travelling to the far side of town).

The thinking is for rail fares to be consistent with each other, rather than be cheaper/more expensive than bus/Metrolink fares.

If you pay £3.60 for a Reddish North to Manchester ticket you additionally get free Metrolink travel in the city centre (but not if you buy the reverse ticket!) there are restrictions on the times you can travel in both directions on weekdays unless you instead buy the £5.10 ticket. If you pay £4.30 for a Stagecoach Manchester day ticket that allows you to travel on any Stagecoach bus service that day. So it's a bit like saying why are the pears cheaper than the apples.

[knutstransport]

RE: Northern (Arriva Rail North)

(22/05/2017 13:42)Dentonian Wrote:  Beyond that, there is a moral argument that bus fares should be cheaper than rail as bus passengers are generally poorer than rail passengers - evidenced by the need to own private transport to access rail in most cases.

In many cases people don't have a choice - from A to B train is the only viable option, while from A to C bus is the only viable option, while the bus usually being the cheaper option stopped being a valid statement a few years ago (except in London.)

In areas like Altrincham, Hyde, Flixton, Marple, New Mills etc. where multiple stations serve the same town the only people who need road transport to get to the station are either disabled or lazy.