Blacon Buses

[knutstransport]

RE: Blacon Buses

(18/10/2016 14:25)iMarkeh Wrote:  Barney: My model collection is big enough. I would like to own a bus company as there are so many viable routes in the area which the majors do not want because they do not make them enough profit.

I agree there's many routes which could be viable which aren't covered. However, I think it would be difficult to start up new routes without getting either a subsidy or having other routes which cover your overheads.

For instance, if you're trying to run a route for commuters which doesn't currently exist then the existing commuters will already have an alternative method of getting to work so they probably wouldn't use your bus on day 1. Jobseekers without cars might start applying for new jobs based on the fact they can use your bus to get to work but that won't create a viable loading overnight.

For tourist attractions they probably won't get that many bus passengers most days. Arriva trialled a Liverpool South Parkway to Speke Hall weekend service. I used that bus on a Heritage Open Day when Speke Hall were offering free admission for the day and going to Speke Hall I was the only person on the bus, going away there were 3 of us on the bus. An average loading of 2 isn't commercially viable!

The 200 bus route between Wilmslow and Manchester Airport with a call at Quarry Bank Mill only exists due to subsidies even though I personally think an extension beyond Wilmslow could boost usage.

Quote:Arr drivers are on £130 per day. I would like to pay drivers around £90 if I can. That would be over an 8 hour shift or so. All drivers would be local as well.

One thing to remember is if you offer a less attractive package you may have a high staff turnover as employees move to other operators for a better package. Then if that happens you'll spend more time and resource on route training.

[buses7675 (Website Founder)]

RE: Blacon Buses

(18/10/2016 15:23)knutstransport Wrote:  For tourist attractions they probably won't get that many bus passengers most days. Arriva trialled a Liverpool South Parkway to Speke Hall weekend service. I used that bus on a Heritage Open Day when Speke Hall were offering free admission for the day and going to Speke Hall I was the only person on the bus, going away there were 3 of us on the bus. An average loading of 2 isn't commercially viable!

I think that was a Merseytravel contract, it ran for three years I think, first year operated by ACE Travel, second year by HTL Buses and third year by Arriva St Helens.

[solo]

RE: Blacon Buses
Its good to have Dreams.

I dont think they meant drivers CPC... They meant managers CPC so you could hold your own O License instead of paying someone else to do it... Another Overhead out of the way.

Of course you can Fuel a bus in a petrol Station.. Initially it would be ideal but later it would be more beneficial to buy it in Bulk as the savings do add up. Tanks etc arent overly expensive. Remember youd be claiming the VAT back on the Fuel anyway.

How many buses are you talking? What happens when it needs a tyre out on its route ? Reliable back up plan? Tyre on a rim ready to go? Spare bus? Driver avalable to take one out? What happens when it or one goes goes bang with an Gearbox or Engine ? Recovery wont be pocket money sums Who will do the Inspections? You'll need a proper maintenace plan in place and have to stick to it.

What happens when a driver fails? Dissapears from the face of th earth or wants their holidays? Spare Driver? Drivers work rest days?

Lets just go off 60lites a day Fuel use. Thats £60 after youve had the Vat back. Then your £90 drivers wage. £150 a day before you start. Parking Maintenance inc Oil Water Bulbs your man with the O license Fees etc all to go on top... then its a really bad day and your inside rear tyre blows and takes the outside rear with it. Theres another £400 plus.

You'll need to be having standing loads to the Ice Cream factory I think.

Dont be buying any Calculators from Auctions in Wrexham either for you calculations... They give wrong numbers.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Blacon Buses

(18/10/2016 15:13)buses7675 Wrote:  Are you sure about this?! £130 per day (based on 8 hours) makes it £16.25 ph

£90 over 8 hours is £11.25 ph

That seems very very high for quiet routes, £16.25 ph is more than the busy Liverpool Arriva and Stagecoach depots get!

I was told yesterday by Arriva Chester that their drivers are on £130 per day. Bus drivers won't exactly work for me if I pay minimum. Though that would be better for me, not best for staff morale ect.

(18/10/2016 15:23)knutstransport Wrote:  I agree there's many routes which could be viable which aren't covered. However, I think it would be difficult to start up new routes without getting either a subsidy or having other routes which cover your overheads.

For instance, if you're trying to run a route for commuters which doesn't currently exist then the existing commuters will already have an alternative method of getting to work so they probably wouldn't use your bus on day 1. Jobseekers without cars might start applying for new jobs based on the fact they can use your bus to get to work but that won't create a viable loading overnight.

For tourist attractions they probably won't get that many bus passengers most days. Arriva trialled a Liverpool South Parkway to Speke Hall weekend service. I used that bus on a Heritage Open Day when Speke Hall were offering free admission for the day and going to Speke Hall I was the only person on the bus, going away there were 3 of us on the bus. An average loading of 2 isn't commercially viable!

The 200 bus route between Wilmslow and Manchester Airport with a call at Quarry Bank Mill only exists due to subsidies even though I personally think an extension beyond Wilmslow could boost usage.

One thing to remember is if you offer a less attractive package you may have a high staff turnover as employees move to other operators for a better package. Then if that happens you'll spend more time and resource on route training.

In fairness, I only want to have less than 10 drivers. 2 would be exclusively for the Sunday so I can aim that job at people who already have a job, are retired and would like something to do or just someone who has other priorities in life so route training would be done all together if I could. I would do route descriptions and maps ect for the driver to have in cab so hopefully that could reduce 1 day of training. I am only looking at these routes. Ice Cream Farm would be a non started until I had the main route started and I had done some market research. The main route is viable just majors are too greedy. I am not expecting an overnight success. I want it to be a almost community run bus service. Not like SC who want loads of money, if someone asks for the route to go a different way for whatever reason, I will look to solve the problem. I want the buses to be very community orientated and attend community events like Blacon Festival. Stuff to get people involved. SC and Arr run buses for money and in most cases, the people along the route dont matter. That is where I hope to pull in the passengers. Attend local events, listen to the community and help them where we can.

(18/10/2016 15:30)solo Wrote:  Its good to have Dreams.

I dont think they meant drivers CPC... They meant managers CPC so you could hold your own O License instead of paying someone else to do it... Another Overhead out of the way.

Of course you can Fuel a bus in a petrol Station.. Initially it would be ideal but later it would be more beneficial to buy it in Bulk as the savings do add up. Tanks etc arent overly expensive. Remember youd be claiming the VAT back on the Fuel anyway.

How many buses are you talking? What happens when it needs a tyre out on its route ? Reliable back up plan? Tyre on a rim ready to go? Spare bus? Driver avalable to take one out? What happens when it or one goes goes bang with an Gearbox or Engine ? Recovery wont be pocket money sums Who will do the Inspections? You'll need a proper maintenace plan in place and have to stick to it.

Lets just go off 60lites a day Fuel use. Thats £60 after youve had the Vat back. Then your £90 drivers wage. £150 a day before you start. Parking Maintenance inc Oil Water Bulbs your man with the O license Fees etc all to go on top... then its a really bad day and your inside rear tyre blows and takes the outside rear with it. Theres another £400 plus.

You'll need to be having standing loads to the Ice Cream factory I think.

Dont be buying any Calculators from Auctions in Wrexham either for you calculations... They give wrong numbers.

Ahh, sorry. I didnt realise. I know in the long run, having a tank would be better however it would cost more and would be a lot more trouble to have one from the offset especially with what people are saying thinking this could be a fail. It is best to look into it if everything works out.
I am looking at 2 buses if I can. 2 small singles (1 would run Mon - Thurs and the other Fri - Sun to keep both buses running and if we have a problem, one can be fixed hopefully in the time). I am not looking to have loads of stuff on site or anything like that, I am looking to pay someone when a bus breaks down for them to come out, repair it or tow it to their area to fix it. The depot would have minimal and basic repair things as I dont anticipate hiring mechanics as that just adds. Again, in the future I can look at it but in the short term, it is a lot easier to see how everything goes then expand or enhance what we have. If a bus breaks, I would have to cancel one or two trips unless a driver is able to pick up the spare bus. I cant afford like 5 buses incase one goes then the next and so on. We can have 300 just in case buses.
All the fees would be high. I just need to get a general idea of the costs (which I am doing at the moment) then see if I can work with it. I would like a business partner to help with bits and bobs but I dont know anyone with the money to help and the expertise. I personally would happily work for free the first few weeks while I get the company going.
I would be working from home as much as I could to save on office fees. Depot will be as close to the route as possible to save dead millage. Anywhere that I can cut costs, I will do.

[RedPanda]

RE: Blacon Buses

(18/10/2016 16:17)iMarkeh Wrote:  I was told yesterday by Arriva Chester that their drivers are on £130 per day. Bus drivers won't exactly work for me if I pay minimum. Though that would be better for me, not best for staff morale ect.

In fairness, I only want to have less than 10 drivers. 2 would be exclusively for the Sunday so I can aim that job at people who already have a job, are retired and would like something to do or just someone who has other priorities in life so route training would be done all together if I could. I would do route descriptions and maps ect for the driver to have in cab so hopefully that could reduce 1 day of training. I am only looking at these routes. Ice Cream Farm would be a non started until I had the main route started and I had done some market research. The main route is viable just majors are too greedy. I am not expecting an overnight success. I want it to be a almost community run bus service. Not like SC who want loads of money, if someone asks for the route to go a different way for whatever reason, I will look to solve the problem. I want the buses to be very community orientated and attend community events like Blacon Festival. Stuff to get people involved. SC and Arr run buses for money and in most cases, the people along the route dont matter. That is where I hope to pull in the passengers. Attend local events, listen to the community and help them where we can.
Ahh, sorry. I didnt realise. I know in the long run, having a tank would be better however it would cost more and would be a lot more trouble to have one from the offset especially with what people are saying thinking this could be a fail. It is best to look into it if everything works out.
I am looking at 2 buses if I can. 2 small singles (1 would run Mon - Thurs and the other Fri - Sun to keep both buses running and if we have a problem, one can be fixed hopefully in the time). I am not looking to have loads of stuff on site or anything like that, I am looking to pay someone when a bus breaks down for them to come out, repair it or tow it to their area to fix it. The depot would have minimal and basic repair things as I dont anticipate hiring mechanics as that just adds. Again, in the future I can look at it but in the short term, it is a lot easier to see how everything goes then expand or enhance what we have. If a bus breaks, I would have to cancel one or two trips unless a driver is able to pick up the spare bus. I cant afford like 5 buses incase one goes then the next and so on. We can have 300 just in case buses.
All the fees would be high. I just need to get a general idea of the costs (which I am doing at the moment) then see if I can work with it. I would like a business partner to help with bits and bobs but I dont know anyone with the money to help and the expertise. I personally would happily work for free the first few weeks while I get the company going.
I would be working from home as much as I could to save on office fees. Depot will be as close to the route as possible to save dead millage. Anywhere that I can cut costs, I will do.

You might be best off going to MD Bus and Coach and perhaps having a word with them. See what advice they could give you as they've been going for 10 month or so. Or perhaps they could be expanding but I can't see them moving into wales just yet.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Blacon Buses
Thank you for letting me know about them. I shall contact them and see how they run. It isnt exactly Wales, it is Chester. I do have quite a few ways I could help them though.

[RedPanda]

RE: Blacon Buses

(18/10/2016 17:06)iMarkeh Wrote:  Thank you for letting me know about them. I shall contact them and see how they run. It isnt exactly Wales, it is Chester. I do have quite a few ways I could help them though.

It may also be worth on keeping an eye on Costco Chester for the fuel. Haydock has started doing it and its a good 10p a litre cheaper than supermarkets. You might be able to give your staff discounts from there if you keep quiet about it and reflect it in the pay.

[motormayhem1]

RE: Blacon Buses

(18/10/2016 15:26)buses7675 Wrote:  I think that was a Merseytravel contract, it ran for three years I think, first year operated by ACE Travel, second year by HTL Buses and third year by Arriva St Helens.

I was the driver for arriva when the speke hall shuttle was operated by them and as it progressed more people started to use it and came quite popular as i loved doing it and had a laugh with the regulars who caught it.

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Blacon Buses

(18/10/2016 18:15)motormayhem1 Wrote:  I was the driver for arriva when the speke hall shuttle was operated by them and as it progressed more people started to use it and came quite popular as i loved doing it and had a laugh with the regulars who caught it.

Dont you mean you loved having a laugh with the regular spotters who used to ride round

[motormayhem1]

RE: Blacon Buses

(18/10/2016 18:33)T42 PVM Wrote:  Dont you mean you loved having a laugh with the regular spotters who used to ride round

That too lol