Operation of articulated buses in the North West

[RedPanda]

Operation of articulated buses in the North West

(26/12/2015 21:42)T42 PVM Wrote:  The 10A Service is still struggling this Boxing Day, Capacity is still a major problem, Buses leaving people behind as their just to full to fit anyone else on, The running time is a joke as well, An hour full route is impossible, That is the running time you would get on a standard evening so as you can guess Buses have been running mega late or running out of Service all day, the last 10A leave Queen Square 25 late and would of got into St Helens 35- 40 mins late... Something needs to be done as this Service is just impossible

If I have used the 10 to get to/from Liverpool, I've noticed that Liverpool to Page Moss/Huyton area is the busiest part of the route. I've seen many obstructions and hazards between Liverpool and Page Moss the main one being buses pulling over at stops. I would say reducing the amount of single and double deckers there are between Liverpool and Page Moss and replacing some with a bendy buses may help ease congestion especially at the Royal Liverpool Hospital.
The only problem I can see is what havoc would it cause if they got stuck at the hospital or the nearby Lidl store.

Can't say too much on today's timetables as I've not been to Liverpool today. Only been on a normal weekday but I can't see there being much difference.

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(26/12/2015 22:40)RedPanda Wrote:  If I have used the 10 to get to/from Liverpool, I've noticed that Liverpool to Page Moss/Huyton area is the busiest part of the route. I've seen many obstructions and hazards between Liverpool and Page Moss the main one being buses pulling over at stops. I would say reducing the amount of single and double deckers there are between Liverpool and Page Moss and replacing some with a bendy buses may help ease congestion especially at the Royal Liverpool Hospital.
The only problem I can see is what havoc would it cause if they got stuck at the hospital or the nearby Lidl store.

Articulated buses would cause more congestion than there is at present unless the relevant bus stops all received expensive modifications accommodate the larger vehicles. If you think how many bus stops there are along the 10/10A routes it would cost a significant amount of money - money that could be spent on something more beneficial. The Alexander Dennis Enviro400s that are currently used by Arriva on the 10/10A are 10.9 metres long - compare that to a Mercedes-Benz O530G which is 18 metres long. Apart from that why would Arriva replace not even 1-year-old double deckers with articulated buses that are over 10 years old with a much lower seating capacity? I think the vast majority of all bus users (regular or otherwise) would very much rather have a seat on a bus than having to stand up - that's why the likes of the 10/10A, 10B, 12/13, 15 and 75 have all received brand new double deckers in the twelve months

[RedPanda]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(26/12/2015 22:54)SL64 JDZ Wrote:  Articulated buses would cause more congestion than there is at present unless the relevant bus stops all received expensive modifications accommodate the larger vehicles. If you think how many bus stops there are along the 10/10A routes it would cost a significant amount of money - money that could be spent on something more beneficial. The Alexander Dennis Enviro400s that are currently used by Arriva on the 10/10A are 10.9 metres long - compare that to a Mercedes-Benz O530G which is 18 metres long. Apart from that why would Arriva replace not even 1-year-old double deckers with articulated buses that are over 10 years old with a much lower seating capacity? I think the vast majority of all bus users (regular or otherwise) would very much rather have a seat on a bus than having to stand up - that's why the likes of the 10/10A, 10B, 12/13, 15 and 75 have all received brand new double deckers in the twelve months

Trial a route with the bendy buses, Liverpool to Junction 2 M57? Make it a limited stop service

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(26/12/2015 23:08)RedPanda Wrote:  Trial a route with the bendy buses, Liverpool to Junction 2 M57? Make it a limited stop service

Arriva has already operated articulated buses in Liverpool. One example was trialled on the 26/27 circulars (albeit not in service) and I believe some were planned to go to Runcorn for deployment on the Runcorn Busway circular services. Ultimately however ten went to Speke depot and they were deployed exclusively on the 500, 501 and 699 between 2011 and 2014

I don't know why there would be another bus service (never mind an express) running between Liverpool and Junction 2 of the M57 - because both the 10 and 10A go through there already - and apart from that there's nothing there that actually needs a direct bus service. Taking into account the amount of traffic (especially at morning and evening peak times) between the city centre and Stoneycroft/Old Swan adding even more buses would not help congestion along an already very busy section of the 8/9, 10/10A and 10B bus routes. I really don't see the point in that idea I'm afraid

[Lynx]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(26/12/2015 23:08)RedPanda Wrote:  Trial a route with the bendy buses, Liverpool to Junction 2 M57? Make it a limited stop service

With out going to off topic, bendys are only really need where it isn't practically possible to run a decker i.e places with low bridges. Bendys would do well on routes running out of Runcorn like the 79c and 82a that are busy services serving busy corridors but can't have deckers because of low bridges on the bus way, but although bendys could practically run on these routes they are not particularly suitable for most sections such as Hough Green and Grangeway estates which is the moral of the story for bendys throughout Merseyside and most of the UK hence why bendys have never really stuck around with Arriva here in Merseyside. Like SL64 JDZ has already pointed out, there would be no point in running bendys on routes where deckers could run with much improved seating capacity than bendys in most cases.

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot
Getting back to the 10A today - the demand is more because there is no alternative between St Helens & Liverpool (no trains). Might have been a better idea to reduce the 10A but run some 10 jourmeys perhaps as at least this would have given passengers a faster option.

[childwallblues]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(26/12/2015 22:40)RedPanda Wrote:  If I have used the 10 to get to/from Liverpool, I've noticed that Liverpool to Page Moss/Huyton area is the busiest part of the route. I've seen many obstructions and hazards between Liverpool and Page Moss the main one being buses pulling over at stops. I would say reducing the amount of single and double deckers there are between Liverpool and Page Moss and replacing some with a bendy buses may help ease congestion especially at the Royal Liverpool Hospital.
The only problem I can see is what havoc would it cause if they got stuck at the hospital or the nearby Lidl store.

Can't say too much on today's timetables as I've not been to Liverpool today. Only been on a normal weekday but I can't see there being much difference.

I think that the major traffic problem for the 10 10A 10B is the section of route inbound between Sainsburys on East Prescot Road and Tesco at Old Swan. The road crosses Queens Drive and then narrows as the dual carriageway finishes. Cars are trying to get into and out of the many side streets through the shopping centre. and then you have the traffic light controlled dounle junction at Broad Green Road (used by services 61/68), St Oswalds Street (services 60/139). Derby Lane and Prescot Road. Add to this a new Aldi built in Broad Green Road adding to a nightmare situation.

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(26/12/2015 23:50)Lynx Wrote:  With out going to off topic, bendys are only really need where it isn't practically possible to run a decker i.e places with low bridges. Bendys would do well on routes running out of Runcorn like the 79c and 82a that are busy services serving busy corridors but can't have deckers because of low bridges on the bus way, but although bendys could practically run on these routes they are not particularly suitable for most sections such as Hough Green and Grangeway estates which is the moral of the story for bendys throughout Merseyside and most of the UK hence why bendys have never really stuck around with Arriva here in Merseyside. Like SL64 JDZ has already pointed out, there would be no point in running bendys on routes where deckers could run with much improved seating capacity than bendys in most cases.

I think the Speke ones where got rid of due to reliability and the fact that 2 caught fire however you make a good point regarding getting Bendies around Estates, Not every route can handle Bendie Buses but it can work (see First Burys 135 Service) but the 10A dont need them as it would lower capacity

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot
There is no low bridges on the 10 corridor, so deckers are the best option.

[Raawwwrrr!]

RE: Arriva North West - St Helens Depot

(27/12/2015 09:29)T42 PVM Wrote:  I think the Speke ones where got rid of due to reliability and the fact that 2 caught fire however you make a good point regarding getting Bendies around Estates, Not every route can handle Bendie Buses but it can work (see First Burys 135 Service) but the 10A dont need them as it would lower capacity

Problems with the Speke batch:

- Two caught fire, at least one whilst in passenger service
- Only trained drivers were allowed to drive them
- Problems regarding overheating
- Capacity wasn't required at all times
- MPG was low in comparison to the rest of the fleet
- Speke and the North West didn't have the facilities to repaint them
- Problems with Merseytravel actually allowing them to be used on services (Could only be used on limited stop 500/501/699). Merseytravel also didn't want to use their funds for bus stop modification so only a few stops were completed (Such as Guild Hall of Students).
- Several problems with unreliability and faults that were deemed too expensive or too confusing to repair in-house. Towing was also expensive.