Sale of Local Authority bus companies

[Metroline1511]

RE: Sale of Local Authority bus companies

(19/12/2015 12:50)wirralbus Wrote:  CMA would prevent purchasing by the same group of Halton and Network Warrington if they WAS to come on the market .

I think they would approve the purchase of both companies by the same operator if it was to a newcomer in bus operations here, such as Go-Ahead, Rotala or RATP.

[RSTurbo50]

RE: Sale of Local Authority bus companies
An interesting point to add. If Network Warrington were in so called Dire Straits...I.e on their knees making horrendous losses, would it make good business sense for the local authority to keep pumping money into a failing business? I very much doubt that especially if offers from some of the big guns were on the table. Therefore it can be concluded that maybe the company aren't doing too badly after all and maybe, dare we say making a profit?

[wirralbus]

RE: Sale of Local Authority bus companies
The local authority's that haven't sold on there transport undertaking by now are not going to unless there is a particular need to , the ones that have done have had a need to .

[motormayhem1]

RE: Sale of Local Authority bus companies
I cant understand why the council couldn't disclose how much network warrington had loaned off them as i thought it should off been open to question seen as though its public money thats basically funded a bail out.
The one thing i would be annoyed at if i lived in warrington is that my taxes would be paying towards the network warrington operation but then getting charged a high rated fare along with it as well.

[CX54 DKD (Moderator)]

RE: Sale of Local Authority bus companies

(20/12/2015 12:15)RSTurbo50 Wrote:  An interesting point to add. If Network Warrington were in so called Dire Straits...I.e on their knees making horrendous losses, would it make good business sense for the local authority to keep pumping money into a failing business? I very much doubt that especially if offers from some of the big guns were on the table. Therefore it can be concluded that maybe the company aren't doing too badly after all and maybe, dare we say making a profit?

I'm not suggesting they're making dire losses here but equally, if we 'dare' to say that they're turning a profit (or were at the time), then why the need to take out a substansial loan from the council and increase fares on a not infrequent basis? You've accused other people of skirting over or ignoring points you've made and posted, but you seem to be doing the same in defence of NW.

(20/12/2015 12:42)motormayhem1 Wrote:  I cant understand why the council couldn't disclose how much network warrington had loaned off them as i thought it should off been open to question seen as though its public money thats basically funded a bail out.
The one thing i would be annoyed at if i lived in warrington is that my taxes would be paying towards the network warrington operation but then getting charged a high rated fare along with it as well.

Surely something a Freedom of Information request should be able to identify given it's public money?

[motormayhem1]

RE: Sale of Local Authority bus companies
Thats what i was thinking as both parties didnt want to say how much was loaned .

[RSTurbo50]

RE: Sale of Local Authority bus companies

(20/12/2015 12:43)CX54 DKD Wrote:  I'm not suggesting they're making dire losses here but equally, if we 'dare' to say that they're turning a profit (or were at the time), then why the need to take out a substansial loan from the council and increase fares on a not infrequent basis? You've accused other people of skirting over or ignoring points you've made and posted, but you seem to be doing the same in defence of NW.

Surely something a Freedom of Information request should be able to identify given it's public money?

The problem I believe people don't see is that very early in the morning and after 8pm at night the buses are running quite empty. Drivers wages, garage staff, fuel etc etc are all costs to the company during this time. Therefore can we assume as a result of this, they need to generate enough capital during the day to account for the losses made during these 'quiet' periods?

As for taking a loan out to purchase new vehicles, we don't know how much exactly this was and the Warrington Guardian who covered the story don't exactly hold Network Warrington in high regards. Therefore could the article be slightly biased not declaring all of the facts?

People are always happy to spread rumours about the company yet appear to lack real insight into why the company make the decisions they do.

[motormayhem1]

RE: Sale of Local Authority bus companies
Im not having a go or anything as i know you have to be carefull in what you say due to you working for the company etc but would it be fair to say that rumours could be squashed if they made public how much was loaned and the reason for doing it by putting it in the news section on there website etc but there just seemed to be so much hush hush behind it which starts getting peoples minds going and spreading rumour.

[CX54 DKD (Moderator)]

RE: Sale of Local Authority bus companies

(20/12/2015 13:15)RSTurbo50 Wrote:  The problem I believe people don't see is that very early in the morning and after 8pm at night the buses are running quite empty. Drivers wages, garage staff, fuel etc etc are all costs to the company during this time. Therefore can we assume as a result of this, they need to generate enough capital during the day to account for the losses made during these 'quiet' periods?

Are these services commercially run? If so, why? If they're not making money, particularly in the evening, then running them commercially is not a good use of taxpayer money by either the council or NW. If deemed socially necessary, the services should be going out to tender and being run as subsidised services by the operator offering the best deal to the taxpayer and public. Do the council, in the form of their own bus company, necessarily offer that?

(20/12/2015 13:15)RSTurbo50 Wrote:  As for taking a loan out to purchase new vehicles, we don't know how much exactly this was and the Warrington Guardian who covered the story don't exactly hold Network Warrington in high regards. Therefore could the article be slightly biased not declaring all of the facts?

I honestly couldn't have told you who's written what about the loan so whether or not it was covered by a bias source is irrelevant to at least me. You've skirted over the fact here that the company have failed to declare the value of the loan though. Consider the fact that no matter what the value of the loan was, it could have been reduced by purchasing second hand vehicles instead of new.

Not knowing how much the loan was for, as you point out, could a loan have been completely avoided by purchasing second hand? Could some of the fare increases have been avoided by purchasing second hand. This all comes back to appropriation of funding and best use of taxpayer funds, in my opinion.

(20/12/2015 13:15)RSTurbo50 Wrote:  People are always happy to spread rumours about the company yet appear to lack real insight into why the company make the decisions they do.

I wouldn't say that I've personally 'spread' a single rumour here. I'm commenting on what we do publicly know about the companies operations and anything else has been posed as a question. Whilst I appreciate that you're loyal to your employer, is your posting not also likely to be bias? And whilst you're a driver for the company, is it likely that you're fully in the know as to the decision making or how truly in the public interest it is?

As a council owned entity, anything NW do should be in the interest of the taxpayer and certainly in light of some of the discussions currently taking place in this thread, it's questionable as to whether that's actually the case.

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Sale of Local Authority bus companies
I think MM is right on the Freedom of information act, We should just ask them:

1. How much was borrowed
2. how much has been paid back
3. How long it will take to pay the remaining loan of

I have never done a Freedom of information request before however if no one wants to do it i will glady do it if someone tells me on here how to go about it