Arriva's Impending North Liverpool Changes

[MTL0201]

RE: Arriva's Impending North Liverpoool Changes

(14/01/2015 15:43)Dentonian Wrote:  How long a journey are we talking; £2.20 (or it might be £2.30 now) buys you 1.5 to 2.5 miles in GM (all ops about the same away from Wilmslow Road)

Indeed, it's the same over here in Wirral as GM, in Liverpool £2.20 single takes you full length of the journey as long as it's in the Liverpool boundary, example £2.20 single can take you on the full route of the 81-81A Bootle-Speke/JLA.

[wirralbus]

RE: Arriva's Impending North Liverpool Changes
Does wonder whether it is whats called marketplace pricing , that Liverpool just would not pay what St Helens , Southport and Wirral passengers have to pay.

[PO59 MXJ]

RE: Arriva's Impending North Liverpoool Changes

(14/01/2015 15:37)motormayhem1 Wrote:  crude oil price may of dropped but big operators agree deals and pay well in advance for there fuel.

Not just that, other costs such as maintenance, wages and the price for parts and constantly increasing which cancels out the money saved by fuel prices dropping. If people looked at the whole picture, they would quickly realise why ticketnprices havnt dropped.

[M113 YKC]

RE: Arriva's Impending North Liverpoool Changes

(14/01/2015 15:28)mathias Wrote:  You'll also notice it's timed to edge ahead of HTL's 159-FAZAKERLEY HOSPITAL at Bootle Strand, and -talking about Bootle Strand- it doesn't use the nearby Merseytravel Bootle Bus Station, thereby avoiding bus station charges!

Call it what you will, but it's a cleverly thought-out route with carefully-engineered timings.

The 62 did and still does go to Fazakerley Hospital from Bootle Strand and vice-versa and is much quicker and more frequent than the 63, so I can't see why there's pressure on the 159 all of a sudden. The 62 threat (if that's what it's supposed to be) has been there for a long time but obviously hasn't had any affect on the success of the 159 (especially as the 159 went commercial a while ago and is still going strong), so I can't see the 63 changing that. The 63 offers no benefit over the 159 - it takes a lot longer and barely runs along its route (apart from between Bootle Strand and North Park, serving near The Park Hotel which the 122 has done for a long time and one stop after Fazakerley Hospital which the 62 and 122 have done for a long time - the 62/63 don't even serve the same stop at the hospital!).

Regarding Avon's 122, the 53A picked at that for a long time and, consequently, the 122 became a skeleton compared to what it was like beforehand. Whether Arriva intend to push Avon out of the picture altogether now or not, they've already done a good job of it. However, this "carefully-engineered" 63 doesn't stop at the same stop at the hospital and runs behind the 122 on the Fazakerley to Crosby stretch, which still gives Avon some sort of advantage. Also, there are less buses on the corridor now during the main period (Monday to Friday daytimes), so there still could be room for Avon if they want to fight for what's left of their service. On a different note, I wonder how long the Merseytravel Saturday 122 will last now...

"Cleverly thought-out route with carefully-engineered timings"... No offence but is that some sort of joke?! Firstly, it starts too late between Fazakerley and Bootle and finishes too early in the opposite direction, taking into account what it's replaced/forced off of the road (such as the 53A and part of the 162). Also, the times are far too slack of a night - they could have actually tightened the times right up and been able to take a bus off it (thus save money). Instead, they have four buses crawling around the route when they could have been utilised better to expand their profitability - for example, they could have continued to serve the entrance of Aintree Station which would be especially-beneficial for those loyal ex-53A passengers as the walk to/from the bus-stops on the bridge from the station isn't great at the best of times and definitely doesn't encourage bus use. They obviously didn't think of those things in the planning stage. If that's their idea of clever and carefully-engineered, I feel sorry for the shareholders who have invested in such rubbish.

I do believe that Arriva have tried to solve problems from their perspective with this new 63, however it's caused more problems than it's worth. What's annoyed me is that they built that 53A up and then binned it as simple as that. They extended it from Netherton to Aintree Station because they seen potential - they didn't want to have buses parked in Netherton doing nothing/not earning money for nearly 20 minutes per round-trip (because the timings didn't fit well) and extending the service to Aintree fitted-in well. However, they then decided to make the evening and Sunday times unbelievably slack (they could leave Queen Square/Aintree up to 10 minutes late and still be dragging their heels halfway around the route) and have each bus sitting at Aintree Station for nearly 30 minutes per round-trip (wasting money). They could easily have tightened the times up which would have saved a bus and money, but they didn't even try that and now we've lost a popular service despite the busy loadings for the majority of the time (and that's before going into how many drivers even bother putting the pass figures into the machines these days - and slack times encourage late-running as drivers become bored with driving slowly and stopping at every timing point, which is another issue.) But what's really annoyed me is that they've done exactly the same money-wasting issues with the 63 which, let's face it, is hardly going to be as busy or as needed as the 53A was, so it'll be interesting to see how long it lasts.

What I don't understand is why Stagecoach have stopped running their 53As when the main aim of them was for positioning, especially after having some of their evening work cut (162 - although I understand that they may have been compensated financially as their contract was changed before the end of it). It would have been nice to see them run a 53A to Aintree along the 53 corridor in a similar way to how they run the 14A to Kirkby on the 14 corridor.

[mathias]

RE: Arriva's Impending North Liverpoool Changes

(14/01/2015 21:02)YJ59 AZA Wrote:  What I don't understand is why Stagecoach have stopped running their 53As when the main aim of them was for positioning, especially after having some of their evening work cut (162 - although I understand that they may have been compensated financially as their contract was changed before the end of it). It would have been nice to see them run a 53A to Aintree along the 53 corridor in a similar way to how they run the 14A to Kirkby on the 14 corridor.

True, it seems bizarre that Stagecoach will run their last 53s from Crosby, OOS, lights out when they could be picking-up cash fares on their way back to Gillmoss depot.

Passengers like familiarity and tradition, and now that the 53A is dead (officially dies 25 January) I wonder if the likes of CUMFYBUS, HTL -or maybe even AVON- fancy having a crack at a night-time 53A route?
One thing's guaranteed, with such a long established route and patronage those Optare Solos would be full-to-bursting!

[MPTE1955]

RE: Arriva's Impending North Liverpool Changes
With regards this 53A withdrawal, we all have to remember that bus companies are not charities but are businesses, therefore this service can't have been making any money and that is likely to be the reason for the withdrawal. Can't see either of HTL or Cumfybus taking taking this on and that would leave AVON to really run a nightime 122 which is also I can't see happening. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that I agree with the withdrawal of the service but if something doesn't make money for a bus company in this day and age then there is no reason to run the service. The only other people that could really step in Merseytravel and to run an evening/sunday tendered service but that is highly unlikely as well.

[T42 PVM (Moderator)]

RE: Arriva's Impending North Liverpool Changes
Sat 122 withdrawn from 19th April

http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/travellin...202015.pdf

[St Helens Rider]

RE: Arriva's Impending North Liverpool Changes

(15/01/2015 17:08)bolton bus basher Wrote:  Sat 122 withdrawn from 19th April

http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/travellin...202015.pdf

That link doesn't work. I have also tried pasted it across and it doesn't work for me either.

[L544]

RE: Arriva's Impending North Liverpool Changes

(15/01/2015 14:29)MPTE1955 Wrote:  With regards this 53A withdrawal, we all have to remember that bus companies are not charities but are businesses, therefore this service can't have been making any money and that is likely to be the reason for the withdrawal. Can't see either of HTL or Cumfybus taking taking this on and that would leave AVON to really run a nightime 122 which is also I can't see happening.

There is no need for an evening service as the 63 covers the former 53A route except for the stop inside the station carpark. The 63 runs all evening, with subsidy? I note that Merseytravel have been able to take off the Bootle - Crosby 162.

What the discussion should be about is that there is no demand for a 63 between Bootle and Crosby unless it comes through from Breeze Hill as otherwise its duplicated daytime by the 47 & 54 . Between Aintree Station and Hospital the 63 will carry minimal loadings other than hospital passengers and then only if it runs ahead of the 122.

I can't see this service lasting very long in this format.

[Barney]

RE: Arriva's Impending North Liverpool Changes

(15/01/2015 17:45)L544 Wrote:  There is no need for an evening service as the 63 covers the former 53A route except for the stop inside the station carpark. The 63 runs all evening, with subsidy? I note that Merseytravel have been able to take off the Bootle - Crosby 162.

What the discussion should be about is that there is no demand for a 63 between Bootle and Crosby unless it comes through from Breeze Hill as otherwise its duplicated daytime by the 47 & 54 . Between Aintree Station and Hospital the 63 will carry minimal loadings other than hospital passengers and then only if it runs ahead of the 122.

I can't see this service lasting very long in this format.

I agree. If you look at a map of the 63 route it completes three quarters of a circuit. Could I suggest that the 62 terminates at Walton Vale (Black Bull) and that circular (63/64) services be introduced starting at Fazakerley Hospital to cover the areas currently served by the 62 and 63 in Walton, Bootle, Crosby, Thornton, Netherton and Aintree.