Go North East

[tyresmoke]

RE: Go North East
The 10 is getting brand new B9TL Geminis soon... these B7's will provide the spare cover but for now are working alongside the Citaros

[venturego]

RE: Go North East
What's happening with WestDurham Swift Express services X31/31, X70/71 - These were going to have new Gemini D/Deckers, but seem to have been lumbered with ex London V reg deckers in Northern Fleet logos. Stanley becoming the poor relation once again!!!? - ( Outside Nexus Area!!)

[venturego]

Nexus QSR
Having read Nexus site re QSR, I now wonder if an Integrated Transport Policy managed by Nexus is the best way forward for bus services within Tyne & Wear and neighbouring areas (Durham & Northumberland). - Go North East, Arriva, Stagecoach have, in my opinion, a Monopolistic postion in respect of services within our region. Although they are competing companies, they have effectively carved up our region (with few exceptions) to create a monopoly on most routes served. GNE's & Arriva's decision on Ashington & Hexham depots would, in any other market, be described as anti competitive in terms of the consumer's interest. Bus companies deciding to withdraw offpeak services while profiteering from the same route during peak periods needs to be controlled for the interest of publiic scrutiny & finances. No other company would be allowed to operate within a controlled market to supply only the most profitable areas that market delivers e.g. Wholesalers supply contracts to hospitals throughout Northumbria & Durham - would have to service remote units (less profitable than those close to base) -similar example to Bus companies' obligation to operate off peak services to win contract for that route (offsetting losses against peak time "excessive" profits, with cosiderable savings for the local taxpayer. Other operators would b willing to enter into competitive tendering process. Route identity can be maintained on Key services as this would also be in Nexus (ITA's) interest to maximise revenue. Simplified "Zone based" ticketing policy would be much welcomed by the public, allowing freedom to choose best opertor bus, train or metro to complete journeys.

[citaro5284]

RE: Go North East

(22/09/2012 21:52)venturego Wrote:  What's happening with WestDurham Swift Express services X31/31, X70/71 - These were going to have new Gemini D/Deckers, but seem to have been lumbered with ex London V reg deckers in Northern Fleet logos. Stanley becoming the poor relation once again!!!? - ( Outside Nexus Area!!)

You could say the same about the 10's been out of the Nexus area. They operate more in Northumberland like the West Durham Swifts in County Durham.

I understand the business case for buying brand new double deck vehicles for the West Durham Swift just did not add up (ie the money these routes make is just not there to pay for them)

[eezypeazy]

RE: Go North East

(22/09/2012 22:20)venturego Wrote:  Having read Nexus site re QSR, I now wonder if an Integrated Transport Policy managed by Nexus is the best way forward for bus services within Tyne & Wear and neighbouring areas (Durham & Northumberland). - Go North East, Arriva, Stagecoach have, in my opinion, a Monopolistic postion in respect of services within our region. Although they are competing companies, they have effectively carved up our region (with few exceptions) to create a monopoly on most routes served. GNE's & Arriva's decision on Ashington & Hexham depots would, in any other market, be described as anti competitive in terms of the consumer's interest. Bus companies deciding to withdraw offpeak services while profiteering from the same route during peak periods needs to be controlled for the interest of publiic scrutiny & finances. No other company would be allowed to operate within a controlled market to supply only the most profitable areas that market delivers e.g. Wholesalers supply contracts to hospitals throughout Northumbria & Durham - would have to service remote units (less profitable than those close to base) -similar example to Bus companies' obligation to operate off peak services to win contract for that route (offsetting losses against peak time "excessive" profits, with cosiderable savings for the local taxpayer. Other operators would b willing to enter into competitive tendering process. Route identity can be maintained on Key services as this would also be in Nexus (ITA's) interest to maximise revenue. Simplified "Zone based" ticketing policy would be much welcomed by the public, allowing freedom to choose best opertor bus, train or metro to complete journeys.

1. The GNE/Arriva depot 'swap' deal was agreed by the Office of Fair Trading - if they thought the deal was anti-competitive they wouldn'r have allowed it and would have referred it to the Competition Commission, just as they did in Barnstaple recently. But they didn't - the deal was allowed and perfectly legal. It also produced operational economies. Anyone with long memories will recall that, at the same time, Arriva was closing smaller depots - Berwick, Alnwick and Morpeth spring to mind - and many industry watchers were pretty certain that Hexham was next. The depot and route swap probably saved jobs in Hexham.
2. The operators have not 'carved up' the region. Where they operate buses is a factor of where their depots are. Light running before and after a service of more than 30 minutes has a huge impact on costs. Unless you have a network of depots no more than an hour away from each other, you're going to end up running services radiating from depots. It's the way this industry works.
3. You assume that bus companies are 'profiteering.' In my book, that means charging excessive prices for shoddy goods to make the highest profits. But the evidence on the ground suggests this is not the case. Just look at the vehicle investment currently going on via Go North East and Arriva, and Stagecoach have bought new vehicles in recent years too. 'Profiteering' would imply running the oldest possible buses for as long as possible. But all three companies are investing in their buses and routes.
4. There's no evidence that 'public scrutiny & finances' makes public transport better. Take Metro for example. According to their most recent accounts, it costs £60 million a year to run and collects £40 million in fares - ie., it makes an annual £20 million loss. This has to be met by the local tax payer, three quarters of whom live nowhere near a Metro station, and whether they use it or not!
5. Almost all 'off peak' services in Tyne and Wear are run on a commercial basis. Tyne and Wear's buses cost somewhere between £140 and £150 million a year to run (depending on whose figures you believe). Nexus puts only £10 million into secured bus services, including buses to schools and works services - strip them out and I suspect that no more than £4 million is going into secured 'ordinary' services. Strip Quaylink, Sunderland Connect and the 'battleship grey' bus routes out and you're not left with very much money at all - I guess that the only 'off peak' services being paid for by Nexus are a handful of very early or very late evening journeys on a handful of routes carrying next to no one.
6. Finally, there is no evidence to suggest that things have ever been better when politicians run them. The steepest period of decline in the bus industry was between 1969 and 1986, when almost everything was nationalised. After privatisation, it took the companies a few years to settle down, but all the evidence is that decline has been arrested and that the companies have learned that if they want to grow their profits (nasty capitalists that they are), then they have to grow the market - no business succeeds in the long term without growth. The main enemy is the private car. So expect every operator who is serious about the future to invest in vehicles, marketing, staff training and everything else that is 'good' about business. None of that will come with quality contracts, which would drive standards down to the lowest common denominator as operators would have no choice other than to strip costs out in order to win contracts on the basis of the cheapest possible price.

[dans_bus_photos]

RE: Go North East
4970 was on the 56 today
5264 was on the 9 today

[tom.robinson206]

RE: Go North East
NK05GZR was on the W5 today.

[Greg in Weardale]

RE: Go North East
I agree with Eezypeazy that Quality Contracts are not the way to go. It would cost vastly more and many people in Tyne & Wear would get a less frequent service and probably higher fares. I can't see the Coast Road or places like Byker, Blaydon or Wrekenton having such frequent services as they do now if Nexus is paying an operator to run them. Many people don't live close to a Metro station and prefer the convenience of a nearby bus, but I can't see Nexus paying to run routes like the GNE 27 or X3 through to Newcastle City Centre. Yes, there have been some service cuts, mainly little used early morning or evening buses, but we are in a recession which shows little sign of going away and all three major operators here have invested in a lot of new vehicles, with Stagecoach and now Go North East introducing "green" buses. Nexus tickets are already available for all buses plus the Metro; people have the choice of whether to buy these or stick with one operator and get their exclusive tickets such the GNE Buzzfare. Venturego implies that Quality Contracts would improve services in County Durham and Northumberland, but Nexus has no responsibility for buses here and certainly won't pay for them - those of us living in County Durham with no evening or Sunday buses would love just a fraction of the money Nexus now spends on secured services, let alone what they'll throw away if they insist on Quality Contracts. Although at least Nexus gave up its Link Up (almost door to door) service some time ago, whereas Durham still wastes a great deal on its Link 2 minibuses, used by a tiny number of people, money which would be much better spent on evening and Sunday services. I don't know how buses coming into Nexus-land from Durham or Northumberland will be affected by Quality Contracts. Nexus won't want them competing with their expensive franchises, so will they have to run non-stop or will passengers be forced to change buses on entering Tyne & Wear? No, Nexus, Quality Contracts will achieve nothing apart from a worse service for the majority of people and waste a great deal more money in providing it - and will they want all the vehicles to be that vile battleship grey?

[eezypeazy]

RE: Go North East
Greg,

You can read an Executive Summary of the quality contract proposal within the papers for the ITAs meeting this coming Thursday, published on http://www.twita.gov.uk

In the section headed 'Network' it says that a number of services and fare options will extend into County Durham and Northumberland. Although it doesn't go into detail, it's reasonable to assume that these will be the busy routes to/from the south east Northumberland towns, Durham City and Seaham. In other words, the QCS will 'grab' the revenue from these busy corridors - presumably Nexus will send the counties the bill for concessionary travel, too. And if any profits are made on these routes, they'll be used to cross-subsidise buses inside Tyne and Wear. If Nexus gets its way on this, it will effectively stop Northumberland and Durham for going for 'Better Bus Area' status, robbing them of the chance of the extra funding that goes with BBAs - and the government has said there'll be no extra money for QCs.

If this goes ahead, we'll all be well and truly stuffed...

[tom.robinson206]

RE: Go North East

(24/09/2012 22:22)Greg in Weardale Wrote:  Many people don't live close to a Metro station and prefer the convenience of a nearby bus, but I can't see Nexus paying to run routes like the GNE 27 or X3 through to Newcastle City Centre.

I think the 27 would be completely withdrawn, as it practically follows the entire metro route between South Shields and Newcastle.