Greater Manchester Tenders

[djb]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(16/01/2022 22:14)Mayneway Wrote:  TFGM made the changes including merging the X5 with the 18. Sadly it’s gone from bad to worse since MCT’s demise.

The 18 is prime example of how to lose passengers forever by tinkering with a service too much before people have chance to adapt. What started as a commercial service, now seems to have eroded to nothing at times. Diamond were running the service after lockdown 1 (the via northern moor route) and numbers were pretty good.

I’ve lost track of the number of changes over the last 10 or so years.

Trafford centre to Altrincham via urmston, stretord, sale, wythenshawe, airport
TC to wythenshawe same route as above
TC to altrincham via urmston, sale, a56
Hiatus in service when commercial daytime withdrawn.
TC to wythenshawe via urmston, Stretford, sale, northern moor
TC to airport via urmston Stretford sale brooklands and wyth.
Now
TC to airport via urmston, flixton, sale (and estates), brooklands, Wyth.

The section between sale and TC has many bus options already, yet that’s the only one that’s remained stable till now.

[knutstransport]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(17/01/2022 11:41)djb Wrote:  The 18 is prime example of how to lose passengers forever by tinkering with a service too much before people have chance to adapt. What started as a commercial service, now seems to have eroded to nothing at times.

I think that's really the issue. Obviously TfGM thought a service was needed between Altrincham and the airport so it went out-to-tender. As Arriva only withdrew part of the service, only the withdrawn part went out-to-tender. As MCT were initially the preferred bidder initially it meant it had to be a separate service and couldn't continue as a through service. If Arriva had placed a bid on the basis it would remain as a through service it might have scored extra quality points but usually cost outranks quality.

Not sure if it was originally D&G's or TfGM's idea to join up the airport-Altrincham with Altrincham-East Didsbury but that made reinstating the 18 as it was more unlikely.

It was similar with the 130 going to Manchester. When Arriva truncated at East Didsbury there didn't seem any point in anything going out-to-tender, due to the high number of services between East Didsbury and Manchester. However, cutting back to Handforth under D&G (which started as commercial) led to a 42C route. The problem then is one service terminates in Handforth town and the other at Handforth retail park so it's not possible to change from one service to the other.

[Mayneway]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders
I drove the 18 while at MCT and it did pretty well tbh. The longer Enviro200’s we’re brought in for the X5 and 18 because it was so busy. As we’ve said TFGM tinker and it ends up carrying fresh air. I see 18’s a lot now around Trafford centre completely empty.

[djb]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(17/01/2022 19:04)Mayneway Wrote:  I drove the 18 while at MCT and it did pretty well tbh. The longer Enviro200’s we’re brought in for the X5 and 18 because it was so busy. As we’ve said TFGM tinker and it ends up carrying fresh air. I see 18’s a lot now around Trafford centre completely empty.

I think if the X5 had survived until franchising started it could have become a popular service again. However I suspect it’s gone for good now. The commuter hours only service would only have worked with stagecoach as the operator (for ticketing).

[iMarkeh]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(18/01/2022 00:41)djb Wrote:  I think if the X5 had survived until franchising started it could have become a popular service again. However I suspect it’s gone for good now. The commuter hours only service would only have worked with stagecoach as the operator (for ticketing).

171/172 similarly, they have dropped off since Diamond took over because the route, while a tender, also acted as an outer link between most of the key Stagecoach corridors (Newton Heath 74/76, Ashton New Road (216/230), Ashton Old Road (219/220/221), Hyde Road (20x routes & 7s), Stockport Road (150, 192, 197), Didsbury Village (various), Southern Cem (various).

Compared to Diamond where the only connection is to the 217.

[Mrboo]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(18/01/2022 01:10)iMarkeh Wrote:  171/172 similarly, they have dropped off since Diamond took over because the route, while a tender, also acted as an outer link between most of the key Stagecoach corridors (Newton Heath 74/76, Ashton New Road (216/230), Ashton Old Road (219/220/221), Hyde Road (20x routes & 7s), Stockport Road (150, 192, 197), Didsbury Village (various), Southern Cem (various).

Compared to Diamond where the only connection is to the 217.

But stagecoach never wanted the 171/172 as was Beeline then Maynes for many years. and only really came to them due to take over of Maynes. Been a decker route since beelne but had times of midi on the route as that all what GMPTE asked for.

[djb]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(18/01/2022 02:48)Mrboo Wrote:  But stagecoach never wanted the 171/172 as was Beeline then Maynes for many years. and only really came to them due to take over of Maynes. Been a decker route since beelne but had times of midi on the route as that all what GMPTE asked for.

If they never really wanted it, surely they wouldn’t have retendered for it (unless the did a high price and were surprised to get it?) They took over maynes in 2008? They can’t have inherited a decade long tender…..

[M60lad]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders
What does the tender for 171/172 specify in regard to vehicles used? For a very long time and as far back as I can imagine it even back to when Maynes operated it, it was always a single decker route in fact the Marshall Darts that Maynes had were bought specifically for the route from what I remember and it you very rarely got double deckers on the route.

Its only recently since Diamond at Bolton took over the route that double deckers have been the preferred vehicle for some reason.

As for the situation with 18 another thing that I don't think helped the route was when they started putting the small TfGM hybrids on the route which have become unreliable (I believe there's a few of them at Switch/Optare at Trafford Park) so maybe this is another reason why passenger levels have dropped.

Oh and don't forget the daytime 18 route runs from Eccles-Manchester Airport via a loop of Trafford Park before getting to Eccles, one thing I can't get my head round is that for some reason there's one or more evening journeys on the route that run in service to Eccles then run dead back to Trafford Centre surely if the journey finishes in Eccles it would make sense for the return journey to start at Eccles, yes the journey might not pick any passengers in Trafford Park but surely the tender covers this.

[Mayneway]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(18/01/2022 01:10)iMarkeh Wrote:  171/172 similarly, they have dropped off since Diamond took over because the route, while a tender, also acted as an outer link between most of the key Stagecoach corridors (Newton Heath 74/76, Ashton New Road (216/230), Ashton Old Road (219/220/221), Hyde Road (20x routes & 7s), Stockport Road (150, 192, 197), Didsbury Village (various), Southern Cem (various).

Compared to Diamond where the only connection is to the 217.

Ironically the 217 became my regular route at MCT and again so sad to see what it’s become. A tiny breadvan always empty because TFGM chopped and changed it so much.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Greater Manchester Tenders

(18/01/2022 07:00)M60lad Wrote:  What does the tender for 171/172 specify in regard to vehicles used? For a very long time and as far back as I can imagine it even back to when Maynes operated it, it was always a single decker route in fact the Marshall Darts that Maynes had were bought specifically for the route from what I remember and it you very rarely got double deckers on the route.

Its only recently since Diamond at Bolton took over the route that double deckers have been the preferred vehicle for some reason.

I think it's deckers as it has a lot of school kids