Arriva North West - Birkenhead Depot

[1466]

RE: Arriva North West - Birkenhead Depot

(16/10/2021 20:26)H101GEV Wrote:  The 47 has needed double deckers for years and, even now, it has only received them due to a short-term frequency reduction.

I'd suggest the current allocation of 42 deckers at Laird Street is rather generous, especially for routes like the 407 and 464.

Really!! All routes at Laird Street get very busy especially during the peaks, not always apparent from the viewpoint of the bus station additionally the 407 and the 471/2 interwork, the addition of mini buses make the matter worse

[wirralbus]

RE: Arriva North West - Birkenhead Depot
464 does pick a decent load up on its loop from New Ferry for its run to Liverpool , it's a mixture of paying and pensioners. This route can be rather useful also at Bebington Station if there is any perturbation in the service on the railway.

407 gets deckers by default of it being paired with a QBP service. A single decker on the 407 will always lead to problems crowding issues on the 471/2 . Likewise when Stagecoach put a single decker on there 471/2 it raises eyebrows.

[MTL0201]

RE: Arriva North West - Birkenhead Depot
432/433/437/471/472 are Laird Street's flagship routes & loadings justify deckers, as said 464 can be full & justifies deckers too. As mentioned 471/472 interwork the 407 so driver changes take place at Laird Street depot, rather than ferrying drivers to Hamilton Street, with extra cost involved so 407 gets deckers too, also the hybrids were introduced as to reduce emissions when going through the tunnels, the Enviro400s then went to Bootle, plus the hybrids are 8 years old now, so not exactly new buses, other depots have had more modern investment in new vehicles.

Also isn't vandalism an issue on the 79 too, i seem to remember the new buses[not sure if it was the Enviro400s or Streetdecks] were allocated away from the 79 because of it.

[gka472l]

RE: Arriva North West - Birkenhead Depot

(20/10/2021 11:52)MTL0201 Wrote:  Also isn't vandalism an issue on the 79 too, i seem to remember the new buses[not sure if it was the Enviro400s or Streetdecks] were allocated away from the 79 because of it.

It was the 48** Hybrids....

HTH

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: Arriva North West - Birkenhead Depot
Nobody's said anywhere Birkenhead doesn't need deckers on the main cross river routes. The point that's being made is Birkenhead received plenty of investment in deckers while many routes on the Liverpool side which needed the extra capacity were allocated single deckers which were too small. At one point the 12/13 and 15 were being operated by knackered Dennis Darts which were completely unsuitable for those routes

The only reason depots like Green Lane and Speke have had so much investment in recent years is because a large number of their routes needed converting to deckers sooner rather than later. Both of those depots also make more money than Birkenhead so they can justify and provide a good return on that investment. Personally I don't think Birkenhead can justify replacing the hybrids yet

[MTL0201]

RE: Arriva North West - Birkenhead Depot
When you look at it, Birkenhead hasn't had much investment in new deckers over the last 25 years, after the batch of cross river volvo olympians that arrived in 1996, the next new deckers were the batch of 23, Enviro400s in 2009 & they were mostly used on the 432/433/437, then the batch of hybrids in 2013 as already explained to cut down on emissions going through the tunnel, with the Enviro400s then going to Bootle. It's a miss conception that Birkenhead gets new deckers all the time, it really doesn't, & isn't it he case every depot has to make an economic case to justify new buses in the first place.

Not only that but MTL started off the scheme from the mid 90s, were they replaced deckers with single deckers on busy routes, think the 10/10A/86 were the first routes to get this converted to single deckers, Arriva continued with the policy after they brought MTL, because of who the area MD was, the policy changed after the MD was transferred elsewhere after comments he made of independent operators.

[MTL0201]

RE: Arriva North West - Birkenhead Depot
Just to add, in the meantime Speke has had 4 batches of new deckers over the last 16 years, the XLX400s new early 2006, the geminis in 2011, then Enviro400s around 14/15, with the streedecks a few years ago.

[SK15 GZG (Moderator)]

RE: Arriva North West - Birkenhead Depot
At the same time Arriva were ordering deckers for Birkenhead they were ordering single deckers for the Liverpool side. In 2009 when the Enviro400s entered service on the cross river routes large numbers of routes on the Liverpool side received Pulsars which were too small from the day they entered service. In 2013 when the hybrids entered service at Birkenhead the 26/27 received a batch of Pulsars which were also too small. The Enviro200s currently on those routes are still too small. The point I'm making is that both times Birkenhead has received deckers under Arriva ownership Liverpool received totally inadequate single deckers

The Liverpool side received a large number of brand new deckers between 2011 and 2017 because the Commanders and Pulsars purchased for the city's busiest routes were too small and the extra capacity was needed then and not when the inadequate saloons were due for replacement. On the other hand Birkenhead depot has always had deckers on its busiest routes. The current fleet of Volvo B5LHs on cross river routes is eight years old and there is absolutely no justification to replace them yet - especially when there are much older vehicles in service across the North West which need to be replaced sooner rather than later

[H101GEV (Administrator)]

RE: Arriva North West - Birkenhead Depot

(20/10/2021 12:31)SK15 GZG Wrote:  Nobody's said anywhere Birkenhead doesn't need deckers on the main cross river routes. The point that's being made is Birkenhead received plenty of investment in deckers while many routes on the Liverpool side which needed the extra capacity were allocated single deckers which were too small.

Yes, I fully agree. Arriva management realised their mistake in 2014 and thankfully put a lot of it right, with plenty of nearly-new Pulsars transferred away as a result.

The only justification I can see for new Cross-River deckers lies in how poor the B5LH's availability rates are. There are regularly eight or so of them out of action, suggesting their reliability isn't particularly good. However, I doubt ordering new diesel deckers would go down well with various bodies, given the commitment to reduce pollution in the tunnels.

I maintain that the 407 and 464 could manage with single deckers if necessary, but I haven't suggested Birkenhead should lose its current allocation; rather, none of its town services justify anything more than full-size saloons and 42 deckers are more than enough.

[MTL0201]

RE: Arriva North West - Birkenhead Depot
How completely & utterly ignorant Arriva have not ordered batches of new deckers for Birkenhead, the last ones were for 2013, time to wind your necks in, as your proving completely clueless.