Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues

[Bevan Price]

RE: Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues
The other thing that would help at Queen Square is to get rid of the metal barriers next to stands 1-8, so that 2 buses could load at the same time at many of the stands. For example, at stand 8, if a 20 & 21 arrive almost simultaneously, the second bus has to wait whilst the first bus loads. But that second bus then often blocks other buses from overtaking, and causes a queue of buses to develop, buses often being delayed for a few minutes.

Doubtless some "safety geek official" would whinge that removing barriers would be dangerous, but (as a onetime workplace safety http://dartslf.com/forum/showthread.php?...ge=3rep.), I would reject that claim - indeed I would suggest that some barriers make the situation more hazardous rather than safer...

And removing the lights at each end of Queen Square would help, instead providing zebra crossings for pedestrians. (Large numbers of pedestrians ignore those lights, crossing the road as soon as they see a gap between buses.)
(Of course they won't do that, because some misguided "experts" seem to have decreed - and convinced council officials - that loads of traffic lights are the solution for all traffic problems.)

[buses7675 (Website Founder)]

RE: Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues
I've used Queen Square Bus Station as a driver at night a few times when the traffic lights had failed (at the top end) and other than having to be aware traffic on St Johns Lane and the car park, the place flowed far better than normal!

The other issue can be too at the top, you get off the stop but don't move very far because of the lights and then sometimes passengers attempt to get you to let them on (however Merseytravel rules don't allow this, once your doors are shut and you move away, even if only a few feet, that is it, you can't pick up) but if you got away from the stop and out the bus station much quicker it would save some of these situations from happening.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues

(15/10/2018 19:21)mr t Wrote:  What should have been done at the start was stands 9-12 never built, it should have been alighting side that side, 2 big bays.

I have to slightly disagree. Stands 9-12 do have some use. More alighting bays are needed but putting all buses from 9-12 over to the other side would cripple it. Stands 9-12 just need to be better utilised.

(15/10/2018 19:21)mr t Wrote:  Now we have the situation single file both ways, cant get passed 2 buses on the stand, stand 1(79S) and 5(15/18) only get 1 bus at a time, stand 1 blocks Whitechapel and exiting Queen Square when 2 79s are there, only 1 bus loads at a time, and only 4 buses can alight.
The unusual situation that for some reason has continued for 10 years now is all the Bootle services still terminate at Queen Square not Whitechapel and half have to use it twice to get layover on St Johns Lane, then use stands 9-12 which really adds up the number of buses that could easily be removed.

I would be moving the tour buses out of stand 2 (If you really want the tour bus to be in Queen Square, make it use 9-12). Put the 14s in stand 2. Then there are less buses trying to use stand 1. Arrivas 79s every 5 minutes shouldn't block the stand.

I think there should be a rule as well that if you don't serve Queen Square outbound, you can't drop off there. Also routes like the 53. If you have longer than 4 minutes before you are due out, you must drop off at St Johns Lane and wait until 4 minutes before your scheduled departure. This way if buses are late they can quickly pick up and drop off. Otherwise, sit outside and then it doesn't cause hassle.

(15/10/2018 20:05)Bevan Price Wrote:  The other thing that would help at Queen Square is to get rid of the metal barriers next to stands 1-8, so that 2 buses could load at the same time at many of the stands. For example, at stand 8, if a 20 & 21 arrive almost simultaneously, the second bus has to wait whilst the first bus loads. But that second bus then often blocks other buses from overtaking, and causes a queue of buses to develop, buses often being delayed for a few minutes.

This is where you introduce 'slot' systems. Merseytravel in Liverpool try linking services by their destinations where as St Helens it runs off slots (If you are late, you get a fine. You have a 5 minute slot on the stand. Use it or lose it. If you are late, you have to bypass the bus station). What I would say it look at West Yorkshire and Warrington. They run off slot systems and they run like clockwork when it comes to stand allocations. It is rare to see buses waiting for a stand. Though it would be very tough to implement properly in Queen Square, something similar would work. Give a 2 minute slot. There are too many clashes. (Just to give an example, 18:55-19:00 there are 4 buses due off stand 10 yet 18:35-18:55 there are NO BUSES. Simply retiming a few buses would help stand allocations).

(15/10/2018 20:05)Bevan Price Wrote:  And removing the lights at each end of Queen Square would help, instead providing zebra crossings for pedestrians. (Large numbers of pedestrians ignore those lights, crossing the road as soon as they see a gap between buses.)
(Of course they won't do that, because some misguided "experts" seem to have decreed - and convinced council officials - that loads of traffic lights are the solution for all traffic problems.)

(15/10/2018 20:20)buses7675 Wrote:  I've used Queen Square Bus Station as a driver at night a few times when the traffic lights had failed (at the top end) and other than having to be aware traffic on St Johns Lane and the car park, the place flowed far better than normal!

I would like to see a subway under St Georges Place. Link it up with Lime Street Station subway. This would drastically reduce the number of pedestrians crossing the road then there is less need for the lights.

[bus401]

RE: Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues
probably neither mayor ever used a bus since they came one!!

[buses7675 (Website Founder)]

RE: Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues

(15/10/2018 22:58)iMarkeh Wrote:  This is where you introduce 'slot' systems. Merseytravel in Liverpool try linking services by their destinations where as St Helens it runs off slots (If you are late, you get a fine. You have a 5 minute slot on the stand. Use it or lose it. If you are late, you have to bypass the bus station). What I would say it look at West Yorkshire and Warrington. They run off slot systems and they run like clockwork when it comes to stand allocations. It is rare to see buses waiting for a stand. Though it would be very tough to implement properly in Queen Square, something similar would work. Give a 2 minute slot. There are too many clashes. (Just to give an example, 18:55-19:00 there are 4 buses due off stand 10 yet 18:35-18:55 there are NO BUSES. Simply retiming a few buses would help stand allocations).

I think due to traffic issues that would be almost unworkable at Queen Square Bus Station - at rush hour almost nothing would end up going into it! Because it isn't a starting bus station for a lot of routes, you can leave Liverpool ONE/Lord Street/Victoria Street/Mann Island etc on time but end up still over 5 late by Queen Square Bus Station - same going inbound so until there were decent bus priority measures in place I don't think that would work sadly.

(15/10/2018 22:58)iMarkeh Wrote:  I would like to see a subway under St Georges Place. Link it up with Lime Street Station subway. This would drastically reduce the number of pedestrians crossing the road then there is less need for the lights.

There is a subway (now closed but it is probably still there!) under Lime Street from the station to St Johns Shopping Centre! When the area used to be Hood Street Gyratory (I am just about old enough to remember, just) there were bridges too to get you from one side to the other and as mentioned previously much wider roads and less traffic in the area in the first place.

[iMarkeh]

RE: Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues

(15/10/2018 23:05)buses7675 Wrote:  I think due to traffic issues that would be almost unworkable at Queen Square Bus Station - at rush hour almost nothing would end up going into it! Because it isn't a starting bus station for a lot of routes, you can leave Liverpool ONE/Lord Street/Victoria Street/Mann Island etc on time but end up still over 5 late by Queen Square Bus Station - same going inbound so until there were decent bus priority measures in place I don't think that would work sadly.

There is a subway (now closed but it is probably still there!) under Lime Street from the station to St Johns Shopping Centre! When the area used to be Hood Street Gyratory (I am just about old enough to remember, just) there were bridges too to get you from one side to the other and as mentioned previously much wider roads and less traffic in the area in the first place.

It would encourage better timetabling through the city centre and possibly encourage companies to use some slightly more direct variations to avoid Queen Square (Just as an example, not saying it would be done but as an example, route 79 could run every other bus straight up St Johns Lane and the other bus could start at Victoria Street and run via Queen Square to minimise the risk of delays.
Bus priority is a must. Regardless of any other plans, Bus priority is a MUST.

I am shocked to hear about the subway. I wonder why that isn't open again now. It could help remove quite a few people from the crossings. I would say a bridge over Queen Square would be good but I think it would cost too much and you have too many idiots who would jump off the bridge. If it was done, you would still need the crossing but have staff watch it and only have it for buggys and wheelchairs etc. During non staff hours, close the bridge and have the crossing run as normal. It is complex but it moves people off the crossing allowing buses to flow better.

[mr t]

RE: Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues
mr t Wrote:
What should have been done at the start was stands 9-12 never built, it should have been alighting side that side, 2 big bays.

I have to slightly disagree. Stands 9-12 do have some use. More alighting bays are needed but putting all buses from 9-12 over to the other side would cripple it. Stands 9-12 just need to be better utilised.

I didnt mean change it now its too late but as soon as Queen Square was designed should never have had them incorporated then that whole side would have been for alighting and we wouldn't have had 20 years of endless queues along Lime Street and up London Road all day.

[mr t]

RE: Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues
I guess we will have to see how it works this time next year when Lime St has been blocked in the middle and at least there wont be no traffic lights to turn from Lime Street into St Johns Lane, only the ones at Queen Square, the council are adamant it will work. It will just move the problems to the other side of Lime Street because all the traffic from the station (Skelhorne ST) and from Great Charlotte St/Elliot ST will have to head south towards the Adelphi so it will likely cause even more queues back to Hanover St.

[M60lad]

RE: Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues
Whereabouts was/is the Subway that linked Lime Street to St Johns Shopping Centre and is there any evidence today of where it was/is?

[motormayhem1]

RE: Liverpool City Centre Traffic Issues
To be quite frank , Queen square just isnt big enough for how many buses use it.
To make that anything like it should be to accommodate the amount of buses going through there you would need another 5 or 6 stands as Queen square reminds me of Piccadilly bus station in manchester , just utter chaos.