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+--- Thread: Manchester bus franchising (/showthread.php?tid=1579)
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Mrboo - 30/01/2023 15:37
[quote='Winston' pid='152733' dateline='1675084985']
Yes, the Streetdecks are Micro Hybrids as standard, same as the Streetlites Rotala bought for Diamond WM. I'm not aware of TfGM imposing any restrictions on operators to dictate what they can/cannot buy for their commercial operations. At the time of the Rotala Streetdeck order, the was not guarantee that franchising would even go ahead.
GNW have only brought in refurbished used buses from around Group for Queens Road. I wouldn't be surprised, if they're intending to make up the vehicle numbers at Bolton & Wigan with more of the same.
[/quote
As a stop gap I see all London buses being withdrawn going to Bolton as they are Ulez. Until new electric buses are ordered for Bolton
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Barney - 30/01/2023 21:12
(30/01/2023 10:36)Mayneway Wrote: Haven’t said they can’t but all their silly protest does is play into the hands of the franchise supporters.
Like it or not, the franchising debate at least for TfGM, like Brexit in the UK, has been decided. At some point, decades into the future, it may be reconsidered but, until then, just accept it.
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Mayneway - 02/02/2023 10:41
(30/01/2023 21:12)Barney Wrote: Like it or not, the franchising debate at least for TfGM, like Brexit in the UK, has been decided. At some point, decades into the future, it may be reconsidered but, until then, just accept it.
I have accepted it and for me as a driver it should be better in terms of pay and conditions, but for some reason I can’t understand why people bang the drum and try and make out it will be miles better because it won’t.
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Barney - 02/02/2023 20:42
(02/02/2023 10:41)Mayneway Wrote: I have accepted it and for me as a driver it should be better in terms of pay and conditions, but for some reason I can’t understand why people bang the drum and try and make out it will be miles better because it won’t.
I really don't understand why you are so ideologically opposed to franchising if you expect your pay and conditions to improve. Having said that, the actual franchisees will still be private operators and not publicly owned so there is no guarantee that this will result.
From a passenger's perspective, it can only get better if services return to anywhere near the level that existed prior to deregulation in 1986. Do you remember those days?
RE: Manchester bus franchising - KXW212 - 03/02/2023 09:43
(02/02/2023 20:42)Barney Wrote: I really don't understand why you are so ideologically opposed to franchising if you expect your pay and conditions to improve. Having said that, the actual franchisees will still be private operators and not publicly owned so there is no guarantee that this will result.
From a passenger's perspective, it can only get better if services return to anywhere near the level that existed prior to deregulation in 1986. Do you remember those days?
You can have as many additional routes and better frequencies as you like, but they will still get stuck in the worsening congestion, which Saint Andy is to cowardly to do anything about. There are no bus priorities to accompany the scheme, so nothing will really change, except the buses will be insipid yellow and that doesn't get them through the traffic any quicker.
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Barney - 03/02/2023 10:29
(03/02/2023 09:43)KXW212 Wrote: You can have as many additional routes and better frequencies as you like, but they will still get stuck in the worsening congestion, which Saint Andy is to cowardly to do anything about. There are no bus priorities to accompany the scheme, so nothing will really change, except the buses will be insipid yellow and that doesn't get them through the traffic any quicker.
You are now conflating two issues: franchising and bus priority schemes.
Several years ago, the good people of Manchester voted against congestion charging which would have mitigated against increasing car usage but is now considering a CAZ within the the TfGM area. What do you think of this?
I have read that TfGM has already drawn up plans for extensive bus lanes and other bus priorities as soon as franchising is completed. Will this help change your view?
Regarding the decision by "St Andy" to adopt an "insipid yellow", I can only conclude that you would be amore amenable to the whole franchising debate if any other livery had been chosen which, to me, makes no sense. After all, when Arriva and Stagecoach rebranded their respective corporate images, it didn't make the buses run more efficiently.
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Mayneway - 03/02/2023 12:04
(02/02/2023 20:42)Barney Wrote: I really don't understand why you are so ideologically opposed to franchising if you expect your pay and conditions to improve. Having said that, the actual franchisees will still be private operators and not publicly owned so there is no guarantee that this will result.
From a passenger's perspective, it can only get better if services return to anywhere near the level that existed prior to deregulation in 1986. Do you remember those days?
I think you need to open your eyes and read a little of the documentation in the public domain. We will loose more services as franchising rolls in and gain nothing.
We are 8 months away from the first phase and the main operator in that area has announced the withdrawal of one major route and the reduction in frequency of others.
Vision who loose the majority of their business in September have also withdrawn a commercial service.
Painting the buses yellow won’t solve the issues we have currently. If you had the slightest experience of TFGM’s planning dept you’d know this but hey what do I know.
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Mayneway - 03/02/2023 12:09
(03/02/2023 09:43)KXW212 Wrote: You can have as many additional routes and better frequencies as you like, but they will still get stuck in the worsening congestion, which Saint Andy is to cowardly to do anything about. There are no bus priorities to accompany the scheme, so nothing will really change, except the buses will be insipid yellow and that doesn't get them through the traffic any quicker.
Tfgm and Manchester City council have recently created a new bus gate on New bridge street just past the courts, and encouraged all bus operators to use it. GREAT! only problem is Salford central station within the bus gate is having 4 months of major building work which means congestion, only difference is cars won’t get stuck in it but buses will.
They recently installed a bus lane on the A6 broad street past Salford uni, great but the bus lane doesn’t start till half way up so in rush our buses sit behind all the cars trying to move over into the outside lane - another pointless exercise.
I could go on but our friend Barney doesn’t see all this through his rose tinted glasses.
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Barney - 03/02/2023 12:22
(03/02/2023 12:04)Mayneway Wrote: I think you need to open your eyes and read a little of the documentation in the public domain. We will loose more services as franchising rolls in and gain nothing.
We are 8 months away from the first phase and the main operator in that area has announced the withdrawal of one major route and the reduction in frequency of others.
Vision who loose the majority of their business in September have also withdrawn a commercial service.
Painting the buses yellow won’t solve the issues we have currently. If you had the slightest experience of TFGM’s planning dept you’d know this but hey what do I know.
My understanding is that the first tranche of franchises will initially replicate what exists right now under the deregulated system and there will not be any change to the bus network until the whole process is completed in 2025. After that date, TfGM will then begin to create a network that it wants and believes to be most beneficial to its populous.
As for the withdrawal of services in the lead-up to September 2023, these are commercial decisions made by the current operators and TfGM has little say in what they choose to do.
Those of us with long memories will remember that in the lead-up to deregulation in 1986, the PTEs did exactly the same in the knowledge that the new commercial operators were unwilling to run them without a subsidy from the local authority.
RE: Manchester bus franchising - Mayneway - 03/02/2023 15:39
(03/02/2023 12:22)Barney Wrote: My understanding is that the first tranche of franchises will initially replicate what exists right now under the deregulated system and there will not be any change to the bus network until the whole process is completed in 2025. After that date, TfGM will then begin to create a network that it wants and believes to be most beneficial to its populous.
As for the withdrawal of services in the lead-up to September 2023, these are commercial decisions made by the current operators and TfGM has little say in what they choose to do.
Those of us with long memories will remember that in the lead-up to deregulation in 1986, the PTEs did exactly the same in the knowledge that the new commercial operators were unwilling to run them without a subsidy from the local authority.
We had a Q&A with Burnham and TFGM chiefs last year. Their plan was/is sit back and do nothing for 5 years once it’s kicked in, although there’s no promise any withdrawn routes will make a come back. No plans for more cross city services and no plans to create more park and ride sites into the city centre.